# Are there atheists who are not really arrogant? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475 "2013-03-31T23:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/141 "2013-04-03T00:17:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > How many of these events were you subjected to? Why did your parents keep sending you to them? > > I never had a single experience like this, but if I had my parents would have completely flipped out. > > The most unwanted religion I was exposed to was the vague Christian overtones of the Cub Scouts, which in my pack was more or less limited to the “god and my country” part of the motto. Five or six. My parents knew, it was the only way I was allowed to run around with some of my elementary school friends on Sundays. Knowing better didn’t make the indoctrination attempts suck any less. Couple of them were incredibly scary and cruel to kids. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/142 "2013-04-03T00:19:13Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > If that actually happened the way you described it, you were a total cunt. If the people **Bijou Drains** has met acted like _you_, it’s no wonder he thinks all atheists are assholes. This is an outrageously inappropriate response. The woman in the anecdote is an extreme god botherer. The child heard a belief that was contrary to his. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/143 "2013-04-03T00:30:12Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > … **Guinastasia** is completely correct. There is something wrong with you if you don’t understand why taking pleasure in making a child run away crying is fucked up. > > Especially with the bragging tone in which he said it. Like being an asshole to a child is going to score you brownie points with other atheists. I honestly didn’t care about the kid or his feelings, not my problem. I was however pissed off and annoyed at his (grand)mother. It’s not my fault the he got upset; it’s her’s for trying to use a small child to proselytize someone she know’s damn well isn’t interested. All I did was give the kid an honest answer to an honest question he asked me without being prompted. Didn’t raise my voice, use profanity, or threaten the kid. Besides if he keeps doing stuff like that when he’s older he’ll be in for alot worse treatment. I will admit I was being passive aggressive though. In order for me to have been a cunt I would’ve needed to show up at at open house at his school, started handing out “Atheist pamphlets”, and asking random people if they’ve stopped beliving in God yet, putting them on the spot, and going on about how silly & ridiculous they are for holding beliefs in nonsense like prayer and the afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/144 "2013-04-03T00:47:26Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > If that actually happened the way you described it, you were a total cunt. If the people **Bijou Drains** has met acted like _you_, it’s no wonder he thinks all atheists are assholes. > > 20% of the people you \*know \*are atheists. Which means 100% of the ones you _don’t know_ are atheists would fit into your “quiet” category. Which is _why_ I said it was anecdotal, and then mentioned the 5% figure for other activities. I still think that the same percentage of people in any given group are assholes. Where I live, being an atheist is much easier (heavy university presence). When my older son was taking an advanced science class, he had a nice little atheist say that it was a waste of school resources since he doesn’t believe in science. Yeah, nice open minded atheist being raised there. Not only that, the bitch was wrong. There are tons of Christians who believe in science, evolution, etc. But they have been brainwashed by their asshole parents into believe the worst of anyone with a smidgen of faith. Which takes us back to the asshole ratio. We find them everywhere, and not just in response to the actions of others. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/145 "2013-04-03T00:58:15Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I was however pissed off and annoyed at his (grand)mother. Which is why I haven’t said anything against what you said. On the one hand, you were dickish, but on the other hand, I may have been raised right but that doesn’t mean that some people don’t bring out the dick in me. What she did went far beyond a simple “Merry Christmas” and begged for a response. I think he may have been more traumatized learning about Santa, though. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/146 "2013-04-03T00:58:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I do…if I know they’re coming. If I’ve been given fair warning. If I know that the family who is hosting dinner does the whole “grace” thing, then I’ll prefer not to attend at all. If I do attend, I figure I’ve gotta make at least that little effort to accomodate them. But the time a family snuck grace in on me without warning, well, nossir: I did not bow. Reading that post, one might be forgiven for thinking that you are often invited to other people’s homes for dinner. You’re not a preacher, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/147 "2013-04-03T01:28:13Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Did you read his whole story? He was being harrassed at work, and his workplace was turning a blind eye. After numerous provocations, he answered the questions he was asked honestly. How is that being an asshole? > > Sure, if he answered snidely or sarcastically, or with in a deliberate effort to discomfit the child. Any of that would be consistent with the story, and may have happened. But given only what he says here, I don’t see how he was being an asshole. Because the kid wasn’t the one harassing him. Sorry, harassing someone’s kid because their parent is being an asshole makes you a dick. If the woman was that bad, tell management, and have them deal with her. Don’t be a dick to someone’s kid just for spite. “Ha ha, I just told your kid there’s no Santa, now you’ll leave me alone!” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/148 "2013-04-03T01:32:59Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > I been there. Lock-ins, Hellhouses, and bowling/swimming/softball events where heathen kids were pounced on and shamed, scared, and bribed to join a church. Mostly scared, though. The ones my daughter went to were quite a bit more restrained, but we live in the Bay Area, the center of gay sin. 🙂 A place where prayer days in school don’t get very far. I trained her well, though; she came out of these things even more convinced believers are nuts. She might have had a very different reaction if I had been ashamed of my atheism and hadn’t taught her how to evaluate religious (and other claims.) Were you a defacto believer when you went through these things? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/149 "2013-04-03T01:34:47Z")
But it’s totally not dickish to tell an unchurched kid all about Satan, damnation to a fiery, eternal Hell, and a God who either loves you or sends you to Hell for sinning? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/150 "2013-04-03T01:43:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because the kid wasn’t the one harassing him. Sorry, harassing someone’s kid because their parent is being an asshole makes you a dick. > > If the woman was that bad, tell management, and have them deal with her. Don’t be a dick to someone’s kid just for spite. “Ha ha, I just told your kid there’s no Santa, now you’ll leave me alone!” Are you sure the grandmother hadn’t coached this kid in her battle for his soul? And depending on where this took place complaining to management that a Christian woman was sharing her religion might not be a career enhancing move. There are plenty of towns in the south where a store reacting at all could cause a scandal in the papers. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/151 "2013-04-03T01:43:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Were you a defacto believer when you went through these things? Nah, born skeptic with a tender heart who never told anyone I did not believe. Did write off going to church under any circumstances at 13 when I witnessed the staff and several parents of a Freewill Baptist church take a “lock-in” (co-ed slumber party in a church basement for the purpose of saving the souls of youth) to another level. Preacher and a couple other adults threw the breaker and went outside to scream, make possessed,demonic moaning sounds, beat on the doors and windows with what sounded like chains while the remaining adults lit candles and prayed over the terrified tweens. When the lights came back up, three of the kids were kneeling in puddles of Piss. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/152 "2013-04-03T01:44:23Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > But it’s totally not dickish to tell an unchurched kid all about Satan, damnation to a fiery, eternal Hell, and a God who either loves you or sends you to Hell for sinning? Especially if that kid is Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/153 "2013-04-03T01:54:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > How many of these events were you subjected to? Why did your parents keep sending you to them? > > I never had a single experience like this, but if I had my parents would have completely flipped out. > > The most unwanted religion I was exposed to was the vague Christian overtones of the Cub Scouts, which in my pack was more or less limited to the “god and my country” part of the motto. I grew up in a rural area and until high school there were literly no organized youth activities other sports, band, the Scouts, or church groups. I never liked sports (playing or watching), dropped out of band because I didn’t want to play the trumpet, and was asked to leave the Cub Scouts because I wouldn’t say the Scout Oath properly. I’m still a little bitter about the last one. I did go to a Christian summer camp inspite of the God stuff, but even then I was only able to put up with all the religious stuff until I was 13 (same time I realized _something else_ about myself). I loved the camp experiance and activities enough to put the Bible study, meaningless prayers, singing hymns (actually I enjoyed the singing), and weird pledges to the Christian flag and Bible. Religion was a backgound thing. Then the last summer I went a knew pastoral couple took over. Things changed. They started having having us talk about our faith in groups, doing one on one counseling (the pastor’s wife asked why I hadn’t except Jesus into my heart as my personal savior while we were _on a canoe in the middle of the lake_), and some really bizarre sermons. Like the pastor telling how when he was a missonary in Africa their camp was attacked by “pagan tribes”, but angels descended from Heaven with flaming swords to protect them (& no, that wasn’t a metaphor) and the pagans saw them an converted the next morning. Or how pagans contol enviromental movement and enviroment doesn’t really matter anyway because Satan rules the world and we should just be faithful Christains until that glorious day when our Father calls us home. :dubious: They actually manged to alienate alot of kids, even the true belivers. Counselors too. Especially the college students. One of whom played a hilarious prank by playing a Black Sabbath CD over the PA system and locking the office door when he snuck out. This was after they had one of the female counselors give a very emotional confession of a suicide attempt, ever a camp fire, to a bunch of 12 & 13 yr olds, that ended her crying about it led her to God. Said counselor left before breakfast. I got all kinds of shit (not just from fellow students either) for being out as an atheist in high school. Things like not saying the Pledge, the one time I did the morning announcements and omited 2 little words ;). Classmates trying to to convert me. The gym teacher who taught health class. Then 9/11 happened and upped the ante. I can only imagine the shit I’d have gotten if I came out of the other closet (since graduated I’ve since learned that most people already suspected that, but literly nobody ever said anything to me face). [QUOTE=Trinopus] …I do…if I know they’re coming. If I’ve been given fair warning. If I know that the family who is hosting dinner does the whole “grace” thing, then I’ll prefer not to attend at all. If I do attend, I figure I’ve gotta make at least that little effort to accomodate them. But the time a family snuck grace in on me without warning, well, nossir: I did not bow… [/QUOTE] Eh, that doesn’t really bother me. I’ll bow my head in silence out of respect for my hosts, the couple getting married, kid getting Christened, or decedent, but I won’t actually join in prayer or say grace. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/154 "2013-04-03T01:57:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because the kid wasn’t the one harassing him. Sorry, harassing someone’s kid because their parent is being an asshole makes you a dick. > > If the woman was that bad, tell management, and have them deal with her. Don’t be a dick to someone’s kid just for spite. “Ha ha, I just told your kid there’s no Santa, now you’ll leave me alone!” I see where you’re coming from now. I still disagree. I don’t think it’s harassing a kid to answer his questions honestly. I don’t agree about the Santa thing, either, mainly because I think people shouldn’t be required to be patronizing to children, but I do think it would have been kinder to leave out the analogy to Santa & Tooth Fairy. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/155 "2013-04-03T01:59:13Z")
This is pointless. Christians have a blind spot exactly the same size as the Hell they gleefully condemn nonsubscribers to, and no amount of kids peeing their pants in terror can make them see the cruelty in their practices. Hell, they seem to get a kick pit of stuff like that. I’ll do the same here as in real life: avoid association with anyone who would frighten children with devils and hells. Good job, OP, for reminding us of the arrogance of believers. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/156 "2013-04-03T02:04:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Then one day she had her son (or possibly grandson) with her. He was about 6 or 7. Same routine. I told her I didn’t want her any pamphlets & refused to take one. Then the little boy asked “But mister don’t you want God to love you?” while she smilled. To which I responed “No”. The baffled little boy asked why, to which I responed “Because he isn’t real, he’s made up like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy”. 😃 He started crying his eyes out, she looked at my like I’d just sprouted horns, and I never saw set foot in the store again. > > Was any thing _I_ did “rude” or “arrogant”? What about any thing did? Or the boy for that matter? > [@Trinopus](#): > > For all of me, you did nothing wrong. However, be wary: I did something similar to a little girl who came to my front door. “I’m sorry, miss, but you have been lied to. God is just a fable made up by ignorant people long ago.” She didn’t cry, but stared in utter amazement, and fled back to her guardian, who’d hung back to let her ring the doorbell by herself. > > I mentioned that in a forum like this one…and the responses I got were extremely critical. What I did (and what you did) is, in some people’s opinion, nothing less than child abuse. There’s an argument to be made that the guardian was the one doing that… > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Honestly? I’d say you acted like a complete asshole. And if you can’t understand _why_, I’m not even going to bother explaining it. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > If that actually happened the way you described it, you were a total cunt. If the people **Bijou Drains** has met acted like _you_, it’s no wonder he thinks all atheists are assholes. These two might have a point. It’s really not up to you to decide when a little kid is ready to learn that there’s no Santa Claus/Tooth Fairy. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/157 "2013-04-03T02:10:05Z")
Ah, I see. Yeah, it wasn’t the religious part, although I still think it’s petty to get into an argument with a little kid about religion. He’s just parroting Mom’s views, so he doesn’t really know any better. To get back at them, however, by telling the kid that Santa doesn’t exist is a really shitty thing to do. It was obvious he wanted to be as offensive as possible – I mean, he could have made a comparison to Batman, or unicorns, or whatever. But telling the kid there’s no Santa? That’s just being cruel. And if an employee ever did that to a child of mine, I’d raise hell. If I were being harassed by a customer, I got a manager. I have a feeling you either got a kick out of the whole thing, or else the whole story is complete bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/158 "2013-04-03T02:10:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because the kid wasn’t the one harassing him. Sorry, harassing someone’s kid because their parent is being an asshole makes you a dick. > > If the woman was that bad, tell management, and have them deal with her. Don’t be a dick to someone’s kid just for spite. “Ha ha, I just told your kid there’s no Santa, now you’ll leave me alone!” Doesn’t seem like you’re reading the same anecdote as the rest of us, or not reading it all the way through. We’re talking about the one where the kid is questioning a stranger about whether he believes in god and why he doesn’t want god’s love. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/159 "2013-04-03T02:17:36Z")
I read it. However, his reply was: > [@](#): > > “Because he isn’t real, he’s made up like **Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy** ”. (Bolding mine) You can’t tell me he didn’t do that on purpose. The kid was 7. He was doing what Mom told him to do. Just because the kid is witnessing doesn’t mean he has to go and be an asshole to a _7-year-old_. Unless you like getting into dick swinging contests with little kids. That really speaks to his maturity. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475/160 "2013-04-03T02:31:11Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > …I mean, he could have made a comparison to Batman, or unicorns, or whatever. But telling the kid there’s no Santa? That’s just being cruel… Sorry, those were the first fictional characters that came to mind. It’s like alot of advance planning went in to it; the whole incident lasted less than 30 seconds. And this was over a decade ago when I was a teenager, of couse I lacked maturity. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-atheists-who-are-not-really-arrogant/654475.md?page=9)