# Are there believers here? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355 "2013-08-28T01:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![want2befree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3e96dc/32.png) [@want2befree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2befree)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/61 "2013-08-28T15:09:56Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Sect can mean denomination. I’m Presbyterian. You are…? I was raised Catholic and jumped ship at 42. I sang in the choir but felt immense guilt from my “mortal sins” I was committing. I couldn’t handle it, and I had been thinking for a couple of years about jumping ship. I found a Christian church, it was small, held in a movie theater. I sang on the worship team (group of 4 as opposed to group of 15 in a choir) and loved it!! What I found was that intead of guilt, Christian churches offer up the belief that we are loved by God by His grace and not by our actions. So opposite of the Catholic church. I also was so tired of the repetitiveness (is that a word lol) of the same old words week after week after week. With only certain parts of the bible. I learned more about the entire bible in my first few months at the Christian church than I had learned in 12 years of Catholic school! I’ll admit. I thought Catholic was the end all be all religion for a very long time. Now, I’m like wow, they are just annoying. I wasn’t personally affected by the whole altar boy scandal so I won’t mention that. I now attend a large church because my small church folded. Do I believe every thing the pastor says? No, especially with regard to gays. And I don’t like the stance on premarital sex, but only because I want to have it with no guilt, ya know!? But yes, in searching for a new church, I tried to avoid like the plague any church that had any sort of specific belief set like Catholics do. I don’t know if my church could be labeled non-denominational though. I know those are out there. I think it’s just considered Christian. I do still feel out of place, however. I attend a community group and I feel like an outcast when they start discussing what they think qualifies as sinful, and what defines a sinner, because I do every single thing on that list. (drink, have sex, etc.) So I do still struggle with that. Ironically, I had no problem with the drinking at the Catholic church, since many of them drink (to excess) and my dad was a heavy drinker and a devout Catholic. But anyway, I’ll shut up now, hope I answered your question! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/62 "2013-08-28T15:15:14Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > I was raised Catholic and jumped ship at 42. I sang in the choir but felt immense guilt from my “mortal sins” I was committing. I couldn’t handle it, and I had been thinking for a couple of years about jumping ship. I found a Christian church, it was small, held in a movie theater. I sang on the worship team (group of 4 as opposed to group of 15 in a choir) and loved it!! What I found was that intead of guilt, Christian churches offer up the belief that we are loved by God by His grace and not by our actions. So opposite of the Catholic church. > > I also was so tired of the repetitiveness (is that a word lol) of the same old words week after week after week. With only certain parts of the bible. I learned more about the entire bible in my first few months at the Christian church than I had learned in 12 years of Catholic school! It’s not clear from this post: do you consider Catholics to be Christians? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/63 "2013-08-28T15:16:07Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > I was raised Catholic and jumped ship at 42. I sang in the choir but felt immense guilt from my “mortal sins” I was committing. I couldn’t handle it, and I had been thinking for a couple of years about jumping ship. I found a Christian church, it was small, held in a movie theater. You don’t think the Roman Catholic Church is a Christian church? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/64 "2013-08-28T15:19:08Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > I do still feel out of place, however. I attend a community group and I feel like an outcast when they start discussing what they think qualifies as sinful, and what defines a sinner, because I do every single thing on that list. (drink, have sex, etc.) So I do still struggle with that. Ironically, I had no problem with the drinking at the Catholic church, since many of them drink (to excess) and my dad was a heavy drinker and a devout Catholic. > > But anyway, I’ll shut up now, hope I answered your question! Yes, thank you. BTW, if you Google your church it is labeled “non-denominational”. IIRC, non-denominational churches have been growing substantially as a percentage of Protestant churches for the last 40 years, if only because people are getting tired of being “labeled” as a Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterial, Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc. Anywho, enjoy the SDMB! ---
**Author:** ![want2befree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3e96dc/32.png) [@want2befree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2befree)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/65 "2013-08-28T15:43:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It’s not clear from this post: do you consider Catholics to be Christians? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![want2befree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3e96dc/32.png) [@want2befree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2befree)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/66 "2013-08-28T15:48:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You don’t think the Roman Catholic Church is a Christian church? Yes, I do, but I also believe it is “man-made” and therefore set up its own rules and regulations, which I now believe to be a bunch of hooey, for lack of a better word. My new mantra is believe in God, and Jesus, and what they did for me, try to be like them in my daily life to the best of my ability and please Him. Is it so I can go to Heaven? Perhaps. But also to please Him, because IMHO, He does look upon that kindly and reward me daily, weekly, etc. Does that sound selfish? Perhaps. I just want to do what is right, is what I’m trying to say. And if I get a few rewards here and there, then that’s icing on the cake. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/67 "2013-08-28T15:55:34Z")
_All_ churches are “man-made”, including the one you go to now. Considering what you have stated about your beliefs, you might want to try something less restrictive, like a Unitarian Church. I don’t know if one is close to you because there are five “Oak Groves” in California. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/68 "2013-08-28T16:02:49Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > My new mantra is believe in God, and Jesus, and what they did for me, try to be like them in my daily life to the best of my ability and please Him. Please don’t. You try to emulate Jehovah or Jesus’ behavior and you’ll end up getting locked up in a state penitentiary or mental institution. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/69 "2013-08-28T16:04:36Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > And also, what do you think accounts for the lack of believers on this board that seems to comprise people in mid-life, and very intelligent? Because we’re old enough not to believe in imaginary companions. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/70 "2013-08-28T16:05:49Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > I believe [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/518/did-jesus-really-exist-and-whats-with-the-shroud-of-turin)- our big guy - addressed this topic quite nicely, and while I would doubtless fail your test I nevertheless wish to welcome you to the community. The Great One devoted two paragraphs to it; that was it. There was a hell of a lot more he could have said, but chose not to including elaborating on those Josephus and Tacitus quotes, explaining why some or all parts of it are considered suspect by quite a few scholars. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/71 "2013-08-28T16:27:55Z")
> [@want2befree](#): > > Jesus Christ, who died on a cross for our sins, to bring us everlasting life. (please, no non-believers in here, if I may ask that) I don’t know about believers vs. non-believers, but there are a bunch of people who would ask you to post proof of the existence of a demigod named Jesus. I’m one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/72 "2013-08-28T16:32:46Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I don’t know about believers vs. non-believers, but there are a bunch of people who would ask you to post proof of the existence of a demigod named Jesus. > > I’m one of them. That’s not what fora such as MPSIMS and IMHO are for. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/73 "2013-08-28T16:38:00Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > That’s not what fora such as MPSIMS and IMHO are for. And where are threads dedicated to witnessing supposed to go? ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/74 "2013-08-28T19:19:52Z")
I’m not a believer, I’m a [Belieber](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Belieber)!! (Not really) ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/75 "2013-08-28T20:14:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _All_ churches are “man-made”, including the one you go to now. Considering what you have stated about your beliefs, you might want to try something less restrictive, like a Unitarian Church. I don’t know if one is close to you because there are five “Oak Groves” in California. No, the OP said they’re in Elk Grove; it’s a Chicagoland village in Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/76 "2013-08-28T20:16:30Z")
But Sun Grove Church IS in Elk Grove, California. Link: [http://sungrove.org/](http://sungrove.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/77 "2013-08-28T20:45:33Z")
I am a Christian, and have in the past posted in religion threads. Not so much anymore because I don’t have the time for debate type threads and they generally devolve into shouting matches between the extemists from both sides. For the record, I was raised in the Southern Baptist denomination but changed to a non denominational church due to philosophical differences with the Southern Baptist Convention. While those differences do not necessarily manifest themselves at individual churches, as Southern Baptist churches are completely independant (even being kicked out of the convention really just means the SBC won’t accept money from that church anymore), the label began to carry more and more unfavorable baggage. I use what many refer to as the “Christian” Bible (Old and New Testament) in several translations, most without the Apocrypha, though I am familiar with those books as well. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/78 "2013-08-28T20:48:44Z")
> [@vodkalover](#): > > I’m a Christian 🙂 With that username, I’m assuming Episcopalian. ---
**Author:** ![want2befree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3e96dc/32.png) [@want2befree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2befree)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/79 "2013-08-28T20:55:15Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > But Sun Grove Church IS in Elk Grove, California. Link: [http://sungrove.org/](http://sungrove.org/) Correct, I’m in California. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355/80 "2013-08-28T20:58:40Z")
I an optimistic agnostic. I don’t think God cares what religion one is, and I think probably every religion is wrong in some degree. I also don’t think existence of God implies eternal life. I attend a liberal Methodist Church, because I think Jesus’ ideas were brave, and a real God-send for human civilization. I think he was a man, though, created the normal way, who did not rise on the third day after crucifixion. The church allows me to participate in charity work easily. I have no idea what happens to consciousness when I die, and I’ve pondered about it a lot, but I don’t expect to be able to continue the Cartesian Theater[sup]1[/sup] I experience now. I’ll leave it up to you whether that makes me a believer. [sup]1[/sup]I don’t want to debate the true existence of said theater. You know what I mean by it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-believers-here/667355.md?page=5)