# Are there "Black Karens"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103 "2020-08-26T23:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/41 "2020-08-27T21:32:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you mean the power of law enforcement, I agree with you. I meant the power of law enforcement, or security guards, or whoever is charged with enforcing the rules. > [@](#): > > But I think another kind of Karen has overconfidence in her _own_ power. This can be any one. If someone is overconfident in their own power, I don’t see it as a problem. If they indeed have the power, good for them. If they don’t, they’ll pay the price for their overconfidence. Karen is different because she knows she has the power of 911 behind her. Or the store manager, or whoever. She doesn’t have to engage in conflict resolution with you. She knows she can make a phone call and solve her problem. She might know this will ruin someone’s day or possibly their life. But she doesn’t have to know or care, so she probably doesn’t. I’m not discounting your story BTW. It serves to show that lots of people are potential Karens, and they only lack access to the right kind of power. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/42 "2020-08-27T21:40:31Z")
AFAICT, most of the time, Karen is not calling police on a black person. Most of the time Karen just wants to speak to the manager, regardless of the ethnicity of the person she’s assuming is an employee who failed to do as she wished. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/43 "2020-08-27T21:40:32Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m not discounting your story BTW. It serves to show that lots of people are potential Karens, and they only lack access to the right kind of power. My mother is upper middle-class. She doesn’t wield the power that an upper middle class white Karen has. But she does have power that a poor person doesn’t have. If she wanted to shed some “white tears” on a 911 call, she definitely could. She has mastered the quintessential white lady phone voice. 😁 Thing is, my mother isn’t Karen enough to sic the police on someone. She will definitely talk to someone’s manager and get someone fired, though. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/44 "2020-08-31T12:27:05Z")
I don’t know about Black Karens, but there was a Karen Black. She was in _Airport 75_, and was the one pursued by the Fetish Doll in _Trilogy of Terror_. > **[Karen Black](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Black)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Karen Blanche Black (née Ziegler; July 1, 1939 – August 8, 2013) was an American actress, screenwriter, singer, and songwriter. She rose to prominence for her work in various studio and independent films in the 1970s, frequently portraying eccentric and offbeat characters, and established herself as a figure of New Hollywood. Her career spanned over 50 years and includes nearly 200 credits in both independent and mainstream films. Black received num... ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/45 "2020-08-31T12:40:35Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I don’t know about Black Karens, but there was a Karen Black. She was in _Airport 75_ , and was the one pursued by the Fetish Doll in _Trilogy of Terror_ . Wasn’t she in Raiders of the Lost Ark? :: checks Wikipedia :: Oh. That was Karen Allen. (Where’s that dope-slap smiley?) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/46 "2020-09-01T12:21:00Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Unless I miss my guess, DrDeth is on a personal crusade to erase the existence of the Karen meme. I would agree with DrDeth. The term IS racist, sexist, misogynistic and classist. There are no “Black Karens” because, by definition, the term “Karen” refers to an obnoxiously entitled white, upper-middle class woman (hence the generically white, upper-middle class name). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/47 "2020-09-01T22:39:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The term IS racist, sexist, misogynistic and classist. There are no “Black Karens” because, by definition, the term “Karen” refers to an obnoxiously entitled white, upper-middle class woman (hence the generically white, upper-middle class name). But then the question becomes by whose definition and what makes it the authoritative one. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/48 "2020-09-03T11:03:10Z")
Sort of offensive to all perfectly normal women named Karen, which happens to be a very common first name. I genuinely wonder how people whose names are (mis)used in this manner cope with it. John is another example - wonder how it came to be associated with toilets? Insulting. Imagine the plight of Karen J Weiner, if such a one exists… ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/49 "2020-09-03T11:25:33Z")
All the Bubbas out there are probably glad that some of the heat is off of them, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/50 "2020-09-19T16:54:18Z")
Personally I agree with those that posted that “Karen” behavior is not reserved for any particular race. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/51 "2020-09-20T23:31:29Z")
Interesting discussion. I would add a sense of entitlement, a serious disregard for minding one’s own business, and complaining about being filmed. Like what many of you have said. Of course, a lot of Karenism is tied to social privilege which means White folks are more likely to engage in said behavior. However I do have one example of Karen behavior by a Black woman, and I cringe every time I see it. There’s a scintilla of a point here, that might be worth discussing, but from what I can tell she berates a White kid for his hair and puts hands on him. > **[Can a white guy have dreadlocks? This puzzling viral video wades into the...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/31/can-a-white-guy-have-dreadlocks-this-puzzling-viral-video-wades-into-the-politics-of-black-hair/)** > > Was it cultural appropriation for a white man to be sporting dreadlocks? Or was the black woman's pointed disapproval another instance of political correctness gone awry? And could the whole exchange have been staged? ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/52 "2020-09-20T23:36:44Z")
I should note there’s a robust debate about what happened before the video starts, some said the White student called her out of her name. I know what cultural appropriation is, but as dreadlocks are the natural state of uncombed curly hair, I think she’s on thin ice… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/53 "2020-09-21T18:54:15Z")
Certainly more white “Entitled complainers” than other races, but by no means is there a strict racial divide. And of course males can act like that also. Sure the “poster child” is a Middle aged White Woman, but it is by no means exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/54 "2020-09-21T19:12:10Z")
There is a long history in America of black people having a name for an aggressively demanding white woman. Miss Anne is one of the first such names and it dates back to the days of slavery. A Miss Anne was the wife or daughter of the plantation owner who would get blacks in trouble with authorities. The name Karen applied to these women is recent and seems to stem from a merging of the Miss Anne trope with a Karen meme that developed on Reddit. Here is a link to a fascinating podcast on the subject: > **[The Karen Has Always Been With Us. This Is How She Found Her Name.](https://slate.com/podcasts/decoder-ring/2020/07/decoder-ring-the-karen)** > > Karen: a white woman who threatens service workers and people of color. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/55 "2020-09-21T19:35:00Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Right on this board I was not long ago called out and with great expression of incredulity over referring to a black woman “going Karen”. Granted it was by one single member but still another frequent participant, not one of our random drivebyers. And we have already had [an actual thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253) asking if “Karen” does in fact involve a factor of sexism/racial dynamics. > > So at least it is true there is a nontrivial number of people who will claim that Karen can only exist from the basis of white privilege and even that it would be wrong to say a black person is acting like a Karen. There was a Lebanese “Karen” on Dr Phil just last week. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/56 "2020-09-21T20:02:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh no, it is not just white women. You know the Film “Crazy Rich Asians” ? Yeah wealthy asian women can be every bit as entitled and bitchy. I suppose so can Blacks, etc. Oh absolutely. The whole “Karen” meme isn’t really a race-based thing, except insofar as most women in the US are white, so the stereotypical “Karen” is white. But “Karens” come in all races, and really even genders. Back in my sporting goods retail days, I had a white male Karen show up- he got all pissed that I couldn’t guarantee that he’d receive the sale price on a queen-sized air mattress of a particular brand that we had for another specific brand of full sized air mattress that had already sold out. In essence, we had a sale on Chevy Novas, and he got pissed that since we had sold out of Chevy Novas, that we wouldn’t give him a full-sized Cadillac for the same price. I tried telling him that it wasn’t how it worked- that he could have a rain check, and we’d call him when it was back in stock, but merely being out of stock didn’t entitle him to any other air mattress of his choice at the same price. He ranted at me about how we needed to honor our sale, blah blah, demanded to see the manager, and last I saw him, he was ranting at the manager about the same thing, despite having the manager say the exact same thing to him. I suspect he either took it to the store’s general manager, or the corporate office. I hope they all told him to pound sand. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/57 "2020-09-21T20:36:04Z")
Wow! She’s insane. Why the hell does she think she can go up to that guy and touch him like that? His hair is none of her damm business. Yup, that’s a “Karen”-type personality, fer sure. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/58 "2020-09-21T23:12:47Z")
I’m so happy you’ve come back to us! 😃 I will never get the “dreadlocks are cultural appropriation” thing. Locks and other hairstyles that are popular among black folks can certainly be used to side-eye worthy, attention-seeking purposes. But they can also just be hairstyles that people wear because they like them. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/59 "2020-09-21T23:37:29Z")
yooooooooooo @monstro!!! Been too long sis. Raising these kids and academic administration kept me away but I’m wading back into the Doper pool. I’m with you. It’s like a while ago when Americans went in on Adele for getting Bantu knots at the Notting Hill Carnival. That was completely appropriate and loved by West Indians in Notting Hill. If you did that in the U.S. it would probably not go over well. That lady… again, with the knowledge that there might have been some stuff happening BEFORE the camera was rolling… I’m just wondering why she expended the energy and life force to deal with this young fellow. I mean, if you and me kick it, and I think you could use a course correction, I might lean in and have a word if it bothered me… I do see a small fragment of her point. But if this is just some dude you crossed paths with, why not just keep it moving and save it for things that matter? It’s not like our life expectancy goes that long. Preserve your energy, sis! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2020, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103/60 "2020-09-23T04:11:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s why I have been on my “crusade.” It’s been almost a month now. How is your “crusade” going? What, exactly, have you done as part of your crusade beside posting here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-black-karens/919103.md?page=4)