# Are there Christian sects where you don't need to accept Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288 "2005-12-06T02:40:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/1 "2005-12-06T02:40:39Z")
I don’t know much about the beliefs of all the sects so are there any sects that believe 1. That you don’t need to accept Jesus at all. That Jesus didn’t die for our sins, he died for some other reason or he didn’t die at all. 2. That Jesus did die for our sins, but you are automatically saved because of the crucifixion and don’t need to believe in Jesus or accept him as salvation is automatic. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/2 "2005-12-06T02:44:54Z")
Maybe not what you’re looking for, but from what I understand the early gnostics believed that Jesus’s death wasn’t literal, but symbollic, and in order to attain salvation/spiritual enlightenment, you must ‘crucify’ your lower/animal self, and embrace your higher self. Or something. Unfortunately most of the gnostics were destroyed by the literalists. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/3 "2005-12-06T02:51:26Z")
I think Unitarian Universalists fit the bill nicely. They are an unusual church in that not all members even self-identify as Christian. Members are free to have different interpretations of the role of Jesus in their spirituality. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/4 "2005-12-06T02:51:29Z")
Unitarian Universalism might meet your requirements. You might want to look into their creed. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/5 "2005-12-06T02:57:30Z")
Well, I’d say that to be “Christian” in any meaningful sense means that you need to have some conception of a way in which Jesus of Nazareth’s life and teachings have some relation and bearing on your own life and your relationship with God. That said, the “Have you accepted Jesus into your life? Have you found Jesus?” sort of evangelism is not characteristic of all branches of Christianity. And the “Do you have a _personal relationship_ with Jesus?” sort of approach is not required by most of the more liberal churches. (I always wanted to answer that, “I used to be in a personal relationship with Him, but it didn’t work out right, and we agreed to be just friends.” ;)) Depending on your personal philosophy about God, religion, and such, you might check into the United Church of Christ, the Episcopal Church (some parishes being very liberal, some not so, but all welcoming honest questions), the ELCA Lutherans (ditto), and the Unitarian Universalists. Also e-mail **Alan Smithee** if his e-mail is listed; he’s in seminary for the Methodist ministry (or may be out and ministering by now) and would be able to give you even better answers. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/6 "2005-12-06T03:19:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Depending on your personal philosophy about God, religion, and such, you might check into the United Church of Christ, the **Episcopal Church** (some parishes being very liberal, some not so, but all welcoming honest questions), the ELCA Lutherans (ditto), and the Unitarian Universalists. I started to give the Episcopalian church answer as part of my original answer too. I am Episcopalian and sometimes the stereotypes are skewed to a slight negative (e.g “Catholic Lite”). A better explanation that doesn’t take up volumes is that the Episcopal church combines Catholic style services with a very modern and “liberal” religious view. My priest for example, is a brilliant female ex D.C. attorney who chose the priesthood later in life most Episcopal priests do. Acceptance for all is high, community is cherished, and there isn’t much forced interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/7 "2005-12-06T03:26:29Z")
[Unitarian Universalists](http://www.uua.org/) are under a much broader scope than Christianity - while they may have roots in Christianity some congregations lean Jewish, Buddhist, etc. They do not have a fixed set of beliefs and you might easily encounter a congregation that leans in multiple directions (with some congregates that may believe Jesus died for our sins). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/8 "2005-12-06T04:02:42Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > 1. That Jesus did die for our sins, but you are automatically saved because of the crucifixion and don’t need to believe in Jesus or accept him as salvation is automatic. Yes, there has been a number of heresies based on this premise (I don’t know if there’s any current religions, though, but I don’t think so), some influential, but my brain is just scrambled right now and I can’t remember their names. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/9 "2005-12-06T04:03:31Z")
There is also Judaism. (Note that this is not a joke answer necessarily) ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/10 "2005-12-06T04:06:11Z")
As someone who grew up as a UU, I was always under the impression that the Unitarian Universalist church isn’t really a “Christian” church. The FAQ from their website is somewhat [equivocal](http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html#christian). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/11 "2005-12-06T04:51:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I started to give the Episcopalian church answer as part of my original answer too. I am Episcopalian and sometimes the stereotypes are skewed to a slight negative (e.g “Catholic Lite”). A better explanation that doesn’t take up volumes is that the Episcopal church combines Catholic style services with a very modern and “liberal” religious view. My priest for example, is a brilliant female ex D.C. attorney who chose the priesthood later in life most Episcopal priests do. Acceptance for all is high, community is cherished, and there isn’t much forced interpretation. You could be describing my parish _to the letter_, except substitute “former South Carolina CPA” for “ex DC attorney” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/12 "2005-12-06T06:16:41Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > As someone who grew up as a UU, I was always under the impression that the Unitarian Universalist church isn’t really a “Christian” church. The FAQ from their website is somewhat [equivocal](http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html#christian). I grew up as a UU, and while of course they have their origins in certain (already very unusual) Christian sects, it seems bizarre to me to describe the modern UU church as “Christian” in any way. They hardly ever mentioned Jesus at my church; certainly most of the congregants didn’t consider themselves Christians. There’s simply nothing Christian about Unitarian Universalism. It’s possible there are some congregations with a Christian bent out there somewhere, but if the UU church as a whole qualifies as Christian, then the term has no meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/13 "2005-12-06T07:16:01Z")
Sorry to disapoint, **Poly** , but I dropped out of seminary last spring after a prolonged crisis of faith. I’m enormously flattered that you thought to refer someone to me, though! Hopefully, I’ve manged to retain enough knowledge to be useful. The second belief **Wesley Clark** proposed is called _[universalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation)_, which is the origin of the latter part of the name of the Unitarian Universalists. (The former part comes from a different heresy. ;)) It is a reasonably well-pedigreed, if mostly modern, minority position in the church. Some form of universalist beliefs can probably be found in every denomination with a liberal wing and some that don’t. One of my favorite religious stories (sorry, I can’t remember where I read it) is about a Russian Orthodox priest who somewhat secretly believed (or at least hoped) that the revelation Paul mentions in 2 Cor 12 of “things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat” is one of universal salvation. Besides UUs, you might want to consider Quakers (Religious Society of Friends). Quakerism has a strong element of universalism running through it, and holds that all people regardless of religion, gender, ethnicity, etc., have equal access to God, who reveals his truth to all who listen with their hearts. Meetings (congregations) therefore do not generally require members to profess any belief or doctrine, only to seek spiritual truth. My father is a Jewish atheist who attended Quaker meetings happily for at least seven years while married to my mother. (He would have continued, but my mother won custody of the church in the divorce. ;)) My grandmother is apparently an atheist with strong anti-religious feelings, but nevertheless joined a Quaker meeting and was active in it for several decades. Despite this, I think Quakers generally feel closer ties to their Christian roots than most UUs and most probably consider themselves Christians and Quakerism a Christian denomination, if not orthodox. One Quaker who very frequently used non-Christian language and imagery (especially from Jung and Campbell) explained to me that she did believe that all people approach God through Christ, but that all do not and need not recognize this or acknowledge it with that language. Also woth noting is that the Roman Catholic Church (as I understand) does not teach that only those who accept Christ are saved. Rather, those who conciously, deliberately, and with full knowledge _reject_ Christ are damned, but those who merely fail to learn the truth for whatever reason may nevertheless be saved through God’s infinite grace. Finally, although I’d say no Christian denomination (by definition, I would argue) could completely affirm belief (1),\* there is within orthodox Christianity a wide variety of emphasis and understanding with regards to what is meant by “Jesus died for your sins” means, and some would reject that as an adequate formula altogether. The theory of substitutionary atonement (that Jesus took upon himself the suffering and punishment that we deserve and thereby met the heavenly requirement of justice) is not without biblical precident, but was relatively quite late in being rigorously defined and attaining prominance. Other theories include that Jesus’ death was a necessary communication of God’s forgiveness, that it was a moral example by which we are made holy and reconciled with God, that it was the perfect sacrifice which fulfilled the Law, that it was a ransom paid to devil to release humans from bondage, that it was part of the process beginning with incarnation and reaching its culmination in the Resurrection of joining human nature with the divine nature and thereby restoring humanity to its original relationship with God, and that it was the beginning and key point in the culmination and fulfilment of the original act of creation. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/14 "2005-12-06T07:17:14Z")
Fine, Gnostics excepted. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/15 "2005-12-06T07:18:19Z")
Hmm…that was the footnote. There was an \* there when I hit submit… ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/16 "2005-12-06T07:18:50Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > if the UU church as a whole qualifies as Christian, then the term has no meaning. Indeed! My ex-girlfriend is an active UU & I got the impression that no two people there on a Sunday had any similar theology, but did have an affinity for early rising on Sundays and frequent meeting attendance… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/17 "2005-12-06T14:13:28Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > There is also Judaism. > > (Note that this is not a joke answer necessarily) Then throw in Islam too, at least for criteria #1 - IIRC, normal Islamic belief is that Jesus was a great prophet, but wasn’t the son of god/didn’t die to forgive people’s sins. Of course, one has to agree on what groups they call Christian. My own criteria for defining Christian would include believing Jesus to be the Son of God, and dieing to forgive us of our sins. Any group without those beliefs would get thrown into a near-Christian/heretic Christian group. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/18 "2005-12-06T14:50:14Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I think Unitarian Universalists fit the bill nicely. They are an unusual church in that not all members even self-identify as Christian. Members are free to have different interpretations of the role of Jesus in their spirituality. They’re free to be humanists and still belong to the church. It has nothing inherently to do with christianity. Anyone can join. You can have religious beliefs or not. I prefer to call it a club. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/19 "2005-12-06T14:52:24Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > Despite this, I think Quakers generally feel closer ties to their Christian roots than most UUs and most probably consider themselves Christians and Quakerism a Christian denomination, if not orthodox. Not necessarily – I was raised Quaker, and continue to consider myself one, though I don’t belong to a meeting – and I am definitely not a Christian, nor are most of the Quakers I know. (When asked if I’m a Christian, my pat answer is “only culturally” – and even that is less so with each passing year.) ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-christian-sects-where-you-dont-need-to-accept-jesus/334288/20 "2005-12-06T15:07:41Z")
I’ll admit that when, at some point in my upbringing, my mother happened to mention that, as Quakers, we were Christians, I was very surprised and more than a little shocked. It was the first I’d heard about it!