# Are there churches that really have NO identity more specific than "Christian"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619 "2012-12-31T01:07:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/21 "2012-12-31T05:09:58Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > They also do a podcast of every service, and I think you can download the slides as well. Nitpick… It’s spelt **g** odcast ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/22 "2012-12-31T08:34:58Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > How common are PowerPoint slides in churches? A friend of mine takes pictures every week and posts them on Facebook. I’ve only been to a handful of Christian churches, and then only for weddings and funerals. But I’ve never seen that before. > And back in my pre-atheist days as a young Jew, I never saw slides in temple. > -D/a They’ve replaced Missals and songbooks in many Spanish churches for decades. I think it started in school chapels: since the projector was available anyway, and it was a lot easier to prep some slides or transparencies with a few new songs than to update the songbook, they used the projector. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/23 "2012-12-31T09:53:45Z")
I spent time in a nondenominations church of 4500 people. They could have fit in with the Baptists or Christian Missionary Alliance with their theology but chose not too. Some churches like their independence of feel a “brand” might have negative connotations and choose not to emphasize it even if they do belong to a denomination. Generally even the largest aren’t big enough to run their own missions program, so they tend to send missionaries out with nondenominal missions and parachurch group. Another huge church in my area is officially Baptist but you’d be hard to tell from their sign, literature, web site, etc. Not every business wants to be a McDonalds franchise rather than a “Ma’s Cafe”. Pastors are voted in by the congregation. Usually there’s a search comittee of elders and maybe other prominent individuals that do the vetting. Even with “branded” churches it’s common among (evangelical churchers anyway) to select their own pastors and ministers (and own their own buildings, etc.) . It doesn’t work like the Catholics where someone in a corner office someplace assigns priests ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/24 "2012-12-31T10:08:23Z")
Life after Death by Powerpoint? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/25 "2012-12-31T11:52:44Z")
I grew up going to a non-denominational Christian church as a kid. They were extremely fundamentalist, very anti-science. I remember them teaching me in Sunday school that radio-carbon dating was a scientific myth, and that a cabal of scientists sat down one day and just arbitrarily decided how old each layer of the earth was going to be. Of course I was taught that the Earth was created in a literal 7 days a few thousand years ago. I was encouraged not to ask questions like what happened to all the Native Americans who lived and died before they ever had a chance to know Jesus, if that was the only way to get into heaven. I remember one sermon was about how choosing to jump off of a tree and breaking your leg because of it is analogous to choosing homosexuality and getting AIDS because of it. The service always consisted of nearly an hour of singing contemporary christian pop-rock time songs and a couple hymns, and then some announcements about what the church was doing, followed by a sermon by the pastor that was inspired by a few verses from the Bible. Of course we all rightly hated Catholics as being basically no better than devil worshipers. So, there’s my experience in a non-denominational Christian church. This was in southern Oregon, if you were wondering. Hope that helps shed some light on just how different they all can be! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/26 "2012-12-31T12:52:42Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > FWIW, _some_ (but by no means all) churches that have names of the form “\_\_\_\_\_\_ Christian Church” are members of the [Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church_(Disciples_of_Christ)) denomination. **MrsFtG** had some family members in this and they were quite insistent that they were “Christians” (as opposed to Baptists, Lutherans, etc.). So the term is also used to refer to a particular group of denominations which is confusing. FWIW, I think “non-denominational” for a church is an oxymoron. Whatever set of beliefs a church has marks it as having that denomination. If it doesn’t have an alternate name for its beliefs, then the church name is it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/27 "2012-12-31T13:35:41Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > “Non-denominational”, in practice, really just means “generic Evangelical Protestant”, IME. > > I think there may be a few that are more Unitarian-ish, but not many. > > They’re mainly just Evangelicals. Probably less conservative than a lot of Evangelicals, but still the same general subculture. Again, IME. Not Evangelical in my experience, but my churchgoing was long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/28 "2012-12-31T14:26:48Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Of course we all rightly hated Catholics as being basically no better than devil worshipers. This is oftentimes a secondary meaning to declaring oneself a “Christian church.” WE’RE a Christian church…THEY are not. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/29 "2012-12-31T15:25:08Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > FWIW, _some_ (but by no means all) churches that have names of the form “\_\_\_\_\_\_ Christian Church” are members of the [Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church_(Disciples_of_Christ)) denomination. The term “Christian Church” is also widely used by [an offshoot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_churches_and_churches_of_Christ) of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination. Some such congregations consider themselves a denomination but several are quite independent and anti-denominationalist. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/30 "2012-12-31T15:40:35Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > The term “Christian Church” is also widely used by [an offshoot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_churches_and_churches_of_Christ) of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination. Some such congregations consider themselves a denomination but several are quite independent and anti-denominationalist. To expand on this a little… Generally, if you’re in the Midwest or South (U.S.), if you see “XXXXX Christian Church,” you can be 99% certain that the congregation aligns doctrinally with the teachings of the Stone/Campbell Restoration Movement. There is no “headquarters”\*, no creed, or anything else to identify the congregation with any national, regional, and/or worldwide association. Any decision affecting one congregation is made by the leaders/members of that congregation. If XXXXX Christian Church loses a minister, they hire another one the same way a company hires a new employee-- they take applications, review resumes, etc. They don’t get “assigned” a new minister from some other authority somewhere else. Style of worship varies greatly across local congregations. You may find a hardcore, Bible-thumping, KJV-only, organ-and-hymns congregation here; you may find a friendly and welcoming congregation with contemporary music and life-affirming sermons there. Since we don’t have a headquarters, we don’t exactly hold any copyright on the term “Christian Church,” so in theory someone could organize a congregation and call it YYYYY Christian Church and have doctrine that doesn’t line up at all with that of the Stone/Campbell movement. Conversely, I could organize a congregation, preach Stone/Campbell until I’m blue in the face, and hire only ministers brought up in the Stone/Campbell tradition, and call it Sweet Honey on the Rock Holiness Gospel Tabernacle of Praise and Deliverance Up In Here. \*I said earlier we don’t have a “headquarters.” That _is_ true; however, we _do_ have a big [meeting](http://www.gotonacc.org/2013/) every year. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/31 "2012-12-31T16:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Musicat** : > > I think that the differences between Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and even Mormon are less than between those as a group and Catholic or other churches. Catholics and Lutherans are probably closer to each other than either is to Presbyterian or Baptist, and all the other sects on your list are closer to each other than any of them are to the Latter-Day Saints. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/32 "2012-12-31T16:43:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Catholics and Lutherans are probably closer to each other than either is to Presbyterian or Baptist, and all the other sects on your list are closer to each other than any of them are to the Latter-Day Saints. What we have here is a matter of opinion, and I think you may be influenced by their origin – I’m aware that Lutherans split off from Catholics, so could be considered closer for that reason. However, in my religious upbringing, using my family and personal experiences as the only guide, Mormons aren’t that far from Presbyterian, Lutheran or Baptist, but Catholics are waaay out there in left field. (I’m talking about the worship services, not the basic beliefs, which are vastly different.) My justification for saying that is I attended Mormon services and saw, at least superficially, not much difference from other Protestants. I was “recruited” by a Mormon who emphasized the lack of distinction, perhaps in order to lure me to his church. And having grown up in a Presbyterian family, then put in a Lutheran school without my strict, fundamentalist parents batting an eye tends to equate those two. So that’s just the way I see it. I could be wrong, and things could have changed. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/33 "2012-12-31T17:25:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Catholics and Lutherans are probably closer to each other than either is to Presbyterian or Baptist, and all the other sects on your list are closer to each other than any of them are to the Latter-Day Saints. I took the [test](http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/BeliefOMatic.aspx) at beliefnet some years back. The top rating for me was a generic liberal Protestant. At the bottom of the list was Roman Catholic. That was _below_ Mormonism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. Roman Catholics and Protestants are not as similar as one might think. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/34 "2012-12-31T17:52:28Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Is there any way to field any kind of guess as to what a “Chirstian” church would be like? In the way that if a Lutheran moves to a new town they can generally have an idea what they’ll get from the local Lutheran church, or a Presbyterian who moves to a new town, etc.? In the US, there are three major Lutheran synods; ELCA (fairly liberal), Missouri (fairly conservative), and Wisconsin (very conservative), From what I understand, an “official” member of an ELCA church can join a Missouri Synod church, and vice versa, with little hassle. A Wisconsin Synod member can join a Missouri Synod or ELCA church fairly easily. However, an ELCA or Missouri Synod member can’t join a Wisconsin Synod church without going through a more formal conversion process. It’s similar to the relationship between Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Judaism. As a Reform Jew, I won’t encounter much of a problem if I decide to join a Conservative congregation. However, to join most Orthodox congregations, I’d have to reconvert. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/35 "2012-12-31T18:08:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Catholics and Lutherans are probably closer to each other than either is to Presbyterian or Baptist, and all the other sects on your list are closer to each other than any of them are to the Latter-Day Saints. A good portion of my family is Lutheran (Missouri and ELCA), and I grew up in a VERY Catholic city. Lutheranism is the first Protestant offshoot from Roman Catholicism, but otherwise, there’s not much in common that I experienced. Some Lutheran churches may be named after saints, but Lutherans have no concept of sainthood. Lutherans have no private confession. No orders of nuns or monks. No veneration of Mary. No veneration of the Baby Jesus. No relics. No miracles. No Latin. A Lutheran hymnal in the US will be filled with songs that have German and traditional American roots. No concept of purgatory or limbo. No Apocrypha. The full Lord’s Prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/36 "2012-12-31T18:11:19Z")
> [@](#): > > What we have here is a matter of opinion, and I think you may be influenced by their origin – I’m aware that Lutherans split off from Catholics, so could be considered closer for that reason. More likely, I’m influenced by my current position: I’m a Catholic, and on the points which Catholics consider important, Lutherans and Catholics are fairly closely aligned (Catholics and Anglicans even more so, but that’s not one of the denominations **Musicat** mentioned). But it occurs to me that other denominations probably consider other points more important, and I’m not sure where Lutherans fall on those. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/37 "2012-12-31T18:13:27Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > To be certain. Lutheran “flavors” such as the Missouri Synod and (even moreso) Wisconsin Evangelical Synod are nearly always extremely conservative (Michele Bachmann, for example, is a Wisconsin Lutheran). ELCA Lutherans, OTOH, are more of a mixed bag, and most ELCA congregations tend to be more “mainstream” Protestant. Or, as an ELCA minister told me when we were looking for a church, “We’re the \*\*\*fun \*\*\*Lutherans.” Of course, that may just have meant they put Cheetos in their hotdish. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/38 "2012-12-31T18:20:41Z")
**elmwood** ’s post wasn’t there when I was typing up mine, but it nicely illustrates what I was saying, in ways that I couldn’t even think of. Yes, the modern Catholic church differs from most Protestants, including Lutherans, on most of those points, but we don’t consider most of those things all that important. What Latin there is in the modern Church is recognized as being a mere historical accident, and nobody would bat an eye at a Catholic church that chose to use mostly German-origin hymns in their hymnals. We do have a monastic tradition, but the vast majority of Catholics aren’t monks. The modern Church says nothing at all about Limbo, and very little about Purgatory, beyond its existence and the fact that Heaven is certainly preferable to it. And we do use the full Lord’s Prayer, as (so far as I know) do all Christian churches. On the other side of the coin, though, Lutherans hold a position which is at least compatible with Catholics concerning the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and follow the same tradition of Apostolic Succession, both of which are absent in many other denominations. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/39 "2012-12-31T20:25:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And we do use the full Lord’s Prayer, as (so far as I know) do all Christian churches. It’s a matter of definition. I assume **elmwood** is talking about the doxology “For thine is the kingdom, the power…” etc. I don’t consider that part of the “Lord’s Prayer,” and the scholarship is that the original text of Matthew doesn’t contain it. (And if you look at current translations of the bible, chances are you will not find that bit in there, except in footnotes.) That said, Roman Catholics do recite the doxology after saying the Lord’s Prayer (after a bit by the priest), although the new mass has different wording, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619/40 "2012-12-31T20:48:41Z")
I know a few practicing Catholics that also attend non denominational Christian churches because they like the services. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-churches-that-really-have-no-identity-more-specific-than-christian/645619.md?page=3)