# Are there countries where coffee is a controlled substance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762 "2013-01-20T00:39:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/1 "2013-01-20T00:39:45Z")
A friend of mine claimed that there were countries where coffee is treated much like cocaine is in the Western world. He said he read it in an anthropology textbook but couldn’t remember the title. Are there any such countries/cultures? Or is it at least possible the author of an anthropology textbook would think so? ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/2 "2013-01-20T01:56:04Z")
North Korea [perhaps](http://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/coffee-10092009113912.html)? They are craving for coffee, it says. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/3 "2013-01-20T02:06:22Z")
Coffee was prohibited by the Ottoman empire back in (I think) the 16th century. This had something to do with the founding of Lloyd’s (which was originally a coffee house) but I forget what. North Korea does not ban coffee. I am trying to find a bloody reason to go to North Korea for a job, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/4 "2013-01-20T02:08:06Z")
To be super lazy and quote wiki: > [@wiki](#): > > Coffee beans were first exported from Ethiopia to Yemen. Yemeni traders brought coffee back to their homeland and began to cultivate the bean.[14] The first coffeehouse opened in Constantinople in 1554.[15] In 1511, it was forbidden for its stimulating effect by conservative, orthodox imams at a theological court in Mecca.[12] However, these bans were to be overturned in 1524 by an order of the Ottoman Turkish Sultan Selim I, with Grand Mufti Mehmet Ebussuud el-İmadi issuing a fatwa allowing the consumption of coffee.[16] In Cairo, Egypt, a similar ban was instituted in 1532, and the coffeehouses and warehouses containing coffee beans were sacked.[17] > > Similarly, coffee was banned by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church some time before the 18th century.[18] However, in the second half of the 19th century, Ethiopian attitudes softened towards coffee drinking, and its consumption spread rapidly between 1880 and 1886; according to Richard Pankhurst, “this was largely due to [Emperor] Menilek, who himself drank it, and to Abuna Matewos who did much to dispel the belief of the clergy that it was a Muslim drink.”[19] If true seems my recollection about lloyds is incorrect (it was definitely a coffee hosue though) ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/5 "2013-01-21T04:29:41Z")
I believe Sikhism and the LDS church prohibit caffeine. Neither of them is the state anywhere I know of, though. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/6 "2013-01-21T06:06:48Z")
error ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/7 "2013-01-22T05:04:40Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > I believe Sikhism and the LDS church prohibit caffeine. I think you’re incorrect about the LDS. “Hot drinks” are against the rules - which they deem to mean tea and coffee. Caffeinated soft drinks are fine. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/8 "2013-01-22T08:01:21Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > I believe Sikhism and the LDS church prohibit caffeine. Neither of them is the state anywhere I know of, though. All I can think of: [there are two](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Ju%C3%A1rez,_Chihuahua) [Mormon colonies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Dubl%C3%A1n) in Mexico. I’d imagine they abide by Chihuahua laws, and if coffee is forbidden there probably aren’t any _legal_ consquences. Maybe a stern talking to. Or the comfy chair, but that wouldn’t be punishing as much because Mormons don’t mind waiting till 11 for their coffee. Sikhism: I think caffeine is kind of a gray area? No “intoxicants.” There are of course heavily Sikh areas in NW India, but doubt they’d ban it for everyone. > [@tellyworth](#): > > I think you’re incorrect about the LDS. “Hot drinks” are against the rules - which they deem to mean tea and coffee. Caffeinated soft drinks are fine. Many Mormons avoid all caffeine. Sounds like a GD question though. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/9 "2013-01-22T08:21:34Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Sikhism: I think caffeine is kind of a gray area? No “intoxicants.” There are of course heavily Sikh areas in NW India, but doubt they’d ban it for everyone. What’s the Sikh attitude towards alcohol and nicotine? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/10 "2013-01-22T09:40:39Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > I think you’re incorrect about the LDS. “Hot drinks” are against the rules - which they deem to mean tea and coffee. Caffeinated soft drinks are fine. This might explain why a Mormon co-worker of mine at a previous job was known to enjoy refreshing caffeinated carbonated beverages, but never tea or coffee. I thought it was odd (my understanding was all caffeinated drinks were verboten for Mormons) but he said shrugged with an air of “I don’t make the rules” and said no, it was just tea and coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/11 "2013-01-22T14:25:14Z")
> [@Bisected8](#): > > A friend of mine claimed that there were countries where coffee is treated much like cocaine is in the Western world. He said he read it in an anthropology textbook but couldn’t remember the title. > > Are there any such countries/cultures? Or is it at least possible the author of an anthropology textbook would think so? Harry Turtledove wrote an alternate history story “King of All” in which a narcartics agent takes a break from pursuing coffee dealers to have a refreshing Coke (original formula) ([King of All | Turtledove | Fandom](http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_All)). I suppose it’s possible that the story might have been reprinted in an anthropology textbook to make a point about the variability of human customs. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/12 "2013-01-22T16:14:28Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Many Mormons avoid all caffeine. Sounds like a GD question though. Not really GD-worthy. I can give a factual (if slightly anecdotal) answer. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > This might explain why a Mormon co-worker of mine at a previous job was known to enjoy refreshing caffeinated carbonated beverages, but never tea or coffee. I thought it was odd (my understanding was all caffeinated drinks were verboten for Mormons) but he said shrugged with an air of “I don’t make the rules” and said no, it was just tea and coffee. Yes, that was my experience when I was a Mormon. The attitude toward caffeine varies by region and by decade. In the '80s and '90s outside of Utah, it was forbidden in most LDS families. In the '90s and '00s in Utah, it was slightly discouraged but no one made a big deal about it. The prophet told Mike Wallace that LDS youth don’t partake of caffeinated sodas, but if he’d gotten out more he would have seen that he was incorrect. In 2012, the official LDS Newsroom mentioned in a Q&A that caffeine had never been forbidden. Coffee itself is verboten. It was discouraged in an 1830’s revelation, and at some point it moved from discouraged to forbidden. But that is God’s law and not man’s law, so I doubt that even in Utah it has ever been a controlled substance. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/13 "2013-01-22T16:38:09Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > This might explain why a Mormon co-worker of mine at a previous job was known to enjoy refreshing caffeinated carbonated beverages, but never tea or coffee. I thought it was odd (my understanding was all caffeinated drinks were verboten for Mormons) but he said shrugged with an air of “I don’t make the rules” and said no, it was just tea and coffee. It’s been said before that people denied one vice often gravitate to another vice that they are allowed to have. I knew an Evangelical Christian who didn’t smoke and afaik didn’t drink, but his church had no specific teachings about video games and he ended up having a problem with video game “addiction”. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/14 "2013-01-22T17:55:57Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > North Korea does not ban coffee. I am trying to find a bloody reason to go to North Korea for a job, actually. Not trying to hijack this thread but… why? Would love to hear more about this if you’re into sharing, maybe in a new thread? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-countries-where-coffee-is-a-controlled-substance/647762/15 "2013-01-22T19:13:15Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > What’s the Sikh attitude towards alcohol and nicotine? > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Sikhism: I think caffeine is kind of a gray area? No “intoxicants.” There are of course heavily Sikh areas in NW India, but doubt they’d ban it for everyone. Since the heaviest drinkers I know among Indians are Panjabis, and these include a good number of Panjabi Sikhs, I’m surprised to learn that intoxicants are banned in Sikhism.