# Are there detectable chemical markers for organic psychiatric problems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334 "2008-01-12T23:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/1 "2008-01-12T23:02:01Z")
Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, ADHD, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizoaffective disorder are all chemical imbalances treated with other chemicals - are they at all diagnosable by a blood/urine/spinal fluid test? Please forgive any ignorance I show about these illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/2 "2008-01-12T23:37:34Z")
There was idea for early detection of PTSD by measuring cortisol level in saliva. I don’t know what is current status of this project. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/3 "2008-01-13T00:21:09Z")
There’s some peculiar reaction to nicotine among shizophrenics: [Here’s one cite](http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0910414.html) > [@](#): > > Use of nicotinic acid or its C1 or C10 alkyl esters in any effective form as a topical preparation giving absorption of the niacin in any effective form through the skin, with production of a differential effect as between schizophrenics and non-schizophrenics in redness and swelling of the skin, in the preparation of a composition for use in a method of diagnosing or monitoring schizophrenia. I’ve not followed this closely, but there’s a fair chunk of literature in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/4 "2008-01-13T00:41:11Z")
I’m thinking that both of those tests would be great when processing a new inmate or screening when someone goes to enlist in the military. They’re non-invasive and could be done w/o the knowledge of the subject. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/5 "2008-01-13T01:18:11Z")
I think it was last year that I heard something about scientists finding a _genetic_ marker for violence. It was likely bogus, though, seeing that I haven’t heard anything since. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/6 "2008-01-13T02:50:09Z")
I’d hate to do this, but is there a cite that Borderline or indeed any personality disorder has primarily biological causes? Huh, well it appears to have some correlation with a quick search, but I would very much hesitate to ascribe cause. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/7 "2008-01-13T03:30:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder, ADHD, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizoaffective disorder are all chemical imbalances Theory. Not proven. There are some chemical markers that are found in some people with schizophrenia, but not all. My guess is that there are a number of different underlying constellations that are manifested in the range of symptoms that we call “schizophrenia.” ETA: We know that people with schizophrenia have higher rates of metabolic disorders, for what it’s worth. However, correlation is not causality. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/8 "2008-01-13T06:47:42Z")
[QUOTE=thelurkinghorror] I’d hate to do this, but is there a cite that Borderline or indeed any personality disorder has primarily biological causes? Huh, well it appears to have some correlation with a quick search, but I would very much hesitate to ascribe cause. [/QUOTE] No, there’s still no evidence of it. They’re always perpetually right on the verge. As others have said, there are some correlations. The presence of a history of using psychiatric drugs should be controlled for in any testing for biological correlates to psychiatric diagnoses. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/9 "2008-01-13T06:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Nawth Chucka] They’re non-invasive and could be done w/o the knowledge of the subject. [/QUOTE] Commenting on this could easily change this to a GD thread. So you favor testing people without their knowledge and consent, and then pigeon-holing them? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/10 "2008-01-13T14:44:51Z")
[QUOTE=Duckster] Commenting on this could easily change this to a GD thread. [/QUOTE] Quite right, I am looking for information and shouldn’t offer opinion. I figured that the disorders that can be described as being ‘chemical imbalances’ and are treated with specific other chemicals could be detected much like hypo- or hyperthyroidism. I’m ignorant of the nuances of causality and correlation, and perhaps I put too much faith in the medical testing available today. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-detectable-chemical-markers-for-organic-psychiatric-problems/433334/11 "2008-01-13T18:46:07Z")
Contemporary psychiatry does a fair amount of diagnosis by response–if you have certain symptoms, and you respond to a medication that often works for people with a particular diagnosis, you are a “responder.” For example, if you have problematic mood cycling and Lithium stops it, you’re a “Lithium responder” and will carry a bipolar spectrum diagnosis. That doesn’t mean that there’s a chemical or genetic test for bipolar disorder, or that it’s well understood how Lithium works, or why it only works for some people. Lest you think that this problem is unique to psychiatry, let me point out that pain cannot be objectively measured and treatment relies on self-report, which is why it’s so hard to differentiate between pain and drug seeking. And opiates don’t decrease everybody’s pain, either.