# Are There Examples of Good A.I.'s? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214 "2016-12-08T16:39:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/61 "2016-12-09T17:14:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > For those tired of pollyannish depictions of humanity in 1960s science fiction, D.F. Jones was your antidote as his general thesis was “humanity is fucking stupid and it’s likely we’ll waste ourselves, but we might luck out. Or not.” > > His most positive book was **Colossus: The Forbin Project** , in which a supercomputer, designed to control the nations military apparatus, was turned on. With its programming compelling it to realize that the greatest threat to mankind’s survival is mankind’s nature, Colossus took over, and, eventually joining forces with a Russian computer, enforces peace upon mankind. > > (The 2nd book was rather silly and involved two Martians who came to steal Earth’s oxygen.) > > So… I guess that’s a good AI? I think this is a HUGE point: what is the definition of “good” ? How does one weigh “freedom” vs. “survival” in determining “good” vs. “bad” ? There have been several of these scenarios where the AI, left to a more objective “survival” (for the entire planet) takes precedence view, determines that man should not be allowed to do certain things (control weaponry, etc.). And this is deemed as “bad”. Whereas “freedom” to do as man chooses, even if it threatens to destroy the whole planet, is a “good” worth defending. On a “micro” scale, on the show “Humans”, a robot is “assigned” to William Hurt’s character - kind of like a “live in” medicare. And the robot monitors and forbids Hurt to do things like smoke. So is this “bad” ? Does depriving “freedom” for the sake of overall health/survival make the AI/decision maker “bad” ? Perhaps on a personal/micro level this is “bad”. But now expand this to a macro scale - where the actions of humans (group) threaten the entire planet. Like global warming. If some AI, which had been given the control to make such decisions and actions, determined that the best immediate solution to reduce greenhouse gas emissions was to, say, disable entire factories or disable the operation of millions of vehicles, one could argue that this was “good” for the sake of the whole planet. Even though it removed freedom. (Ironically, one could have these exact same arguments about the role of government in our lives) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/62 "2016-12-09T17:40:31Z")
Well, some folks have mentioned Three Laws robots – where the first law is, of course, that a robot may not injure a human being, or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm. Even aside from all of the other ramifications, Asimov has a character soon ask, _hey, what would happen if a robot saw some guy starting a fire that would totally burn down a whole building and kill all of the innocents inside?_ And the answer was, _well, if the only way to stop that guy is to injure or kill him, then the robot that can’t injure or kill a human would totally injure or kill him._ ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/63 "2016-12-09T17:50:35Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Dunno if this was in the book, but IIRC, Colossus in the movie also detonated a nuke to thwart a human plot to disarm it. It then basically said “you have two options: peace without freedom, or freedom in death.” You can argue that Colossus was acting in humanity’s best interests by taking away their freedom, but it was still a “my way or the highway” situation. So…True Neutral? Another AI controlling humanity for its own good shows up in the Asimov story “The Life and Times of Multivac”. Humans (at least some of them, anyway) want to reclaim their freedom, and the protagonist figures out a way to crash Multivac. After he does so, he proclaims to his anti-Multivac friends (who had turned their backs on him because part of his plan was to pretend to help Multivac breed discontentedness out of the population) that humanity is now free… and, upon noticing that their reaction is more shell-shocked than triumphant, finally asks “Isn’t that what you want?” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/64 "2016-12-09T18:03:52Z")
A truly good AI couldn’t actually enslave humanity, in my view. It would be doing what humanity itself thinks is good. Thus a good AI has to balance freedom and protection, just as humans would want in a government today. And no, it wouldn’t be able to make humans change what they want, since that falls afoul of what we think is good now. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/65 "2016-12-09T18:35:47Z")
Marvin, Deep Thought, and the annoying self-satisfied doors from _Hitchhiker’s_. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/66 "2016-12-09T18:53:24Z")
There’s Aleph, the humanity-spanning AI from [Infinity, the game](http://www.infinitythegame.com/sphere.php?f=7). Granted, it has its own interests which may not be good for specific portions of humanity. But it is overall interested in helping humanity survive in a hostile space. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/67 "2016-12-09T19:41:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, some folks have mentioned Three Laws robots – where the first law is, of course, that a robot may not injure a human being, or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm. It’s the almost overlooked second part that led, I believe, to Jack Williamson’s Humanoids series. What does “inaction” mean? If the robot leaves you in a room with a loaded gun, well, one could argue that its inaction in removing the gun could lead to harm to a human. So logically, per the Three Laws, robots should remove from human’s presence anything that can harm them. No guns, knives, stairs, cars, airplanes, cigarettes, alcohol, pieces of food large enough to choke on, sharp corners, unpadded floors, nor slippery showers will be allowed anywhere around humans. And does “harm” include emotional harm? Then no romance will be allowed. Broken hearts hurt! And no books or plays or TV shows, and especially no horror movies allowed. You could have a heart attack! So AIs that follow the three laws to that level - are they good or evil? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/68 "2016-12-10T02:17:26Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Chaotic Good? Chaotic? Good! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/69 "2016-12-10T02:27:19Z")
The [Bolos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolo_(tank)) are outright heroic, defenders of humanity to the last. ZORAC and VISAR of the Giants of Ganymede series. Spartacus of _The Two Faces of Tomorrow,_ despite killing a lot of humans; it \*stopped \*killing the moment it understood they were people like itself and immediately started helping repair the damage. Valentina, of the novel\* Valentina.\* > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > So AIs that follow the three laws to that level - are they good or evil? Neither - they are amoral, following a rigid ruleset. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/70 "2016-12-10T04:20:38Z")
So far, The Android from Dark Matter is good (at least to the crew, and as far as S2 E4). Caravaggio from Starhunter is good, at least in the few episodes I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/71 "2016-12-11T00:14:54Z")
Gideon, the ship’s AI from Legends of Tomorrow, if you want to keep things recent. If you want to dip into the past, there’s the original Human Torch. He even killed Hitler before being “time split” into two separate androids, one of which would be rebuilt as the Vision. Of course you’ve also got Optimus Prime and the Autobots, as well. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/72 "2016-12-11T03:39:11Z")
Questor, from _The Questor Tapes_. Sentinel One and the Prime Sentinel, from _Space Sentinels_. Fi and Fum, from _The Lost Saucer_. Six, Gus, and Spaceship Bob, from _Tripping the Rift_. the book’s narrator from Frederick Pohl’s novel _Man Plus_. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/73 "2016-12-11T23:10:07Z")
Zen and (a bit less obviously) Orac from _Blake’s 7_? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/74 "2016-12-12T03:52:20Z")
I didn’t watch the second and third movies, but wasn’t the Oracle from Matrix also an AI? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/75 "2016-12-12T16:12:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > [QUOTE=Darren Garrison] > “Bad” AIs that choose to be good, such as The Iron Giant. How about FUTURAMA’s Bender? Sure, he’ll save the world, or his friends – but he _doesn’t_ behave “similarly to how a good human would”; he’s basically just a selfish thief who talks like a swindler if he’s not talking like a blackmailer. But, again, if innocents are going to _die,_ he’ll step up and risk his neck for them. [/QUOTE] I would say that Bender is a good AI that really, really wishes he were bad. That’s why the worst he’s ever really done[sup]1[/sup] is petty larceny. 1 - Besides enslaving an entire planet and forcing them to build a giant, fire-breathing memorial to him, but c’mon, who _hasn’t_ done that? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/76 "2016-12-12T16:18:01Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It’s the almost overlooked second part that led, I believe, to Jack Williamson’s Humanoids series. What does “inaction” mean? If the robot leaves you in a room with a loaded gun, well, one could argue that its inaction in removing the gun could lead to harm to a human. So logically, per the Three Laws, robots should remove from human’s presence anything that can harm them. No guns, knives, stairs, cars, airplanes, cigarettes, alcohol, pieces of food large enough to choke on, sharp corners, unpadded floors, nor slippery showers will be allowed anywhere around humans. And does “harm” include emotional harm? Then no romance will be allowed. Broken hearts hurt! And no books or plays or TV shows, and especially no horror movies allowed. You could have a heart attack! > > So AIs that follow the three laws to that level - are they good or evil? Pretty much the entire plot of [I, Robot:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Robot_(film)) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > VIKI has concluded that humans have embarked on a course that can only lead to their extinction. Since the Three Laws prohibit her from allowing this to happen, she created a superseding “Zeroth Law”—a robot shall not harm humanity—as part of the NS-5 directives, in order to ensure the survival of the human race by stripping individual humans of their free will. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214/77 "2016-12-17T00:57:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Wikipedia > VIKI has concluded that humans have embarked on a course that can only lead to their extinction. Living next door to Harriet Brindle will do that to a robot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-examples-of-good-a-i-s/774214.md?page=3)