# Are there good reasons to be anti-free trade? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281 "2016-01-15T21:59:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/181 "2016-02-26T17:47:37Z")
That’s just not true. Cheap/abundant labour+slack safety standards+easy going building codes=advantage in factories unless it’s a factory which requires highly skilled workers. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/182 "2016-02-26T18:30:43Z")
Are you seriously saying is is “just not true” that different types of factories don’t constitute different types of work? Oh, wait, you’re confusing “easy going building codes” with “Factory labour” and lumping that in as comparative advantage. Okay then. What specific industries in China benefit from easy-going building codes? Because if your answer is “all of them,” **you don’t know what comparative advantage is.** There is no universal “factory labor.” I don’t know how much more simply to put this, but if you have some elitist idea that every factory job’s the same as the next, you are wrong. Jobs are different, and depending on the nature of the capital, resources, skills, technology, supplier base and a thousand other things available to a given country, they will be comparatively advantageous in some industries but not others. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/183 "2016-02-29T14:27:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t know how many factories you’ve been in, but the term “factory labor” is meaningless in the context of this discussion. There is no such thing as a universal skill of “factory labor.” The type of labor involved in sewing T-shirts is nothing at all like the labor involved in welding and fitting structural steel, which is nothing at all like running an injection molding machine, which is nothing at all like producing nylon fibers, which is nothing at all like assembling centrifugal pumps. I don’t know how many factories YOU have been in but there is such a thing as cheap low skill labor. China’s comparative advantage is in cheap low skill labor (an accommodating workplace safety and environmental regime). The vast majority of China’s manufacturing capacity does not rely on high skill labor and low skill labor is pretty fungible. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/184 "2016-02-29T14:49:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Are you seriously saying is is “just not true” that different types of factories don’t constitute different types of work? Sure they are different types of work but how long do you think it take to learn how to operate a sewing machine? A couple of hours at most. How long to get up to a reasonable production speed operating a sewing machine? A week. How long do you think it takes to learn how to operate a drill press? How long do you think it takes to learn how to operate an aluminum stamping machine? How long do you think it takes to assemble cheap plastic toys from parts that get spit out by a plastic molding machine? Heck, how long do you think it takes to learn how to run an injection molding machine? None of these require more than a bit of care, diligence and attention to detail. Things that don’t require much training. > [@](#): > > Oh, wait, you’re confusing “easy going building codes” with “Factory labour” and lumping that in as comparative advantage. Okay then. What specific industries in China benefit from easy-going building codes? Because if your answer is “all of them,” **you don’t know what comparative advantage is.** I think you are confused about what comparative advantage is. And yet you keep insisting that other people don’t know what comparative advantage is. First you say that labor cannot be a comparative advantage and I point out to you that the classic example of comparative advantage that they use to teach the concept is the lawyer that can type 300 words/minute and his secretary that can only type 200 words/minute. Now you imply that a country cannot have a comparative advantage if the entire country is good at something, absolute advantages frequently translate into comparative advantages. It is entirely possible for an entire country to be good at something and for that something to be its comparative advantage. As long as they are better at that something than they are at other things. Lets say that China has shitty workplace safety laws, that could give all of China a comparative advantage in doing things where workplace safety adds significant overhead and reduces productivity (say mining). > [@](#): > > There is no universal “factory labor.” I don’t know how much more simply to put this, but if you have some elitist idea that every factory job’s the same as the next, you are wrong. Jobs are different, and depending on the nature of the capital, resources, skills, technology, supplier base and a thousand other things available to a given country, they will be comparatively advantageous in some industries but not others. Low skill labor is pretty fungible. How long do you think it takes to operate a sewing machine? How long do you think it takes to learn how to assemble plastic toys? How long do you think it takes to learn how to operate a injection molding machine? As long as you are fairly diligent and focused you can learn how to use a sewing machine in a few hours and you can get up to speed in a week. That large pool of sewing machine operators spits out enough higher skilled sewing machine operators for anything that might require higher skill. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/185 "2016-02-29T17:39:47Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Oh, lookee here: > > [President Obama signed a bill Wednesday that includes a provision banning U.S. imports of fish caught by slaves in Southeast Asia, gold mined by children in Africa and garments sewn by abused women in Bangladesh, closing a loophole in an 85-year-old tariff law that has failed to keep products of forced and child labor out of America.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-bans-u-s-imports-goods-produced-slavery-article-1.2543244) > > So, apparently, the US Congress and the President agree with me that there’s slave labor going on in SE Asia in the fishing industry. Fucking clowns in this thread. Next person who tries to dishonestly argue and tries to make up crap up about my position is going to get pitted. In other words, these societies are so poor that their children must work in order to live, therefore we should impoverish them with trade restrictions. No, the donors to Obama and Congress simply want to be protected from competitors, and obviously nobody involved actually cares about what’s going on. I never said there was no slave labor, bud. In fact if there was slave labor, I would take a much more radical and capitalist approach than you could conceive. As for the “abused women” I’d have to see what they mean by “abused”. If it involves violence, I would take radical and capitalist action. If it is merely bad working conditions, I would argue as I did for child labor. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/186 "2016-02-29T18:53:54Z")
Korean economist [Ha-joon Chang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang) is a good authority here. > [@](#): > > In his book _Kicking Away the Ladder_ (which won the European Association for Evolutionary Political Economy’s 2003 Gunnar Myrdal Prize), Chang argued that all major developed countries used interventionist economic policies in order to get rich and then tried to forbid other countries from doing similarly. The World Trade Organization, World Bank and International Monetary Fund come in for strong criticism from Chang for “ladder-kicking” of this type which, he argues, are the fundamental obstacle to poverty alleviation in the developing world. This and other work led to his being awarded the 2005 Wassily Leontief Prize for Advancing the Frontiers of Economic Thought from the Global Development and Environment Institute (previous prize-winners include Amartya Sen, John Kenneth Galbraith, Herman Daly, Alice Amsden and Robert Wade).[15][16] > > \ > > Following up on the ideas of _Kicking Away the Ladder,_ Chang published _Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism_ in December 2008.[20] Chang countered Irwin’s criticisms by arguing that countries that had failed to develop had generally followed free market policies. Chang also argued that while state interventionism sometimes produced economic failures, it had a better record than unregulated free market economies which, he maintained, very rarely succeeded in producing economic development. He cited evidence that GDP growth in developing countries had been higher prior to external pressures recommending deregulation and extended his analysis to the failures of free trade to induce growth through privatisation and anti-inflationary policies. Chang’s book won plaudits from Nobel Prize–winning economist Joseph Stiglitz for its fresh insight and effective blend of contemporary and historical cases but was criticised by former World Bank economist William Easterly, who said that Chang used selective evidence in his book. Chang responded to Easterly’s criticisms, asserting that Easterly misread his argument. Easterly in turn provided a counter-reply.[21][22] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/187 "2016-02-29T19:10:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Korean economist [Ha-joon Chang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang) is a good authority here. And why should he be accepted as a good authority, in contrast to the strong majority of economists who agree that free trade is beneficial? ([Cite](http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_d68906VNWqVmiGN)). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/188 "2016-02-29T19:25:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Are you seriously saying is is “just not true” that different types of factories don’t constitute different types of work? > > Oh, wait, you’re confusing “easy going building codes” with “Factory labour” and lumping that in as comparative advantage. Okay then. What specific industries in China benefit from easy-going building codes? Because if your answer is “all of them,” **you don’t know what comparative advantage is.** I pretty clearly said the three things I listed taken together offers an advantage in factory labour, so I am pretty baffled why you singled out the one. And easy going or at least poorly enforced building codes do indeed benefit most factories. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/189 "2016-02-29T19:31:30Z")
Lack of a maximum occupancy, lack of fire resistance standards, lack of earthquake resistance standards, lack of air quality standards benefits a garment factory as much as a doll factory. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/190 "2016-02-29T21:10:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > China’s comparative advantage is in cheap low skill labor No, it’s not, **because that is not a comparative advantage.** That’s a COMPETITIVE advantage. I know those words both start with a C, but “chocolate” and “cyanide” also both start with a C but you shouldn’t eat the latter for a snack. You seem to switch between knowing what it is and then not knowing what it is. It’s bizarre. > [@](#): > > How long do you think it takes to operate a sewing machine? Longer than a few hours (that’s an absolutely comical answer, by the way; there is not a person on this earth who can learn how to use an industrial grade sewing machine well enough to make an acceptable product in a few hours. I doubt a Nobel laureate could do that.) But then, what is it you’re sewing? I do have three customers with a lot of tailors using sewing machines, but they all make different products, so it depends. I can ask them next time I’m there how long it takes for someone to be really productive, but my recollection (I have not been to any of them since October) was between three months to a year, and all were perpetually looking for good workers. Injection molding machines are harder. Learning how to use one doesn’t take super long. Learning how to be a genuinely productive employee takes much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/191 "2016-03-01T21:43:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, it’s not, **because that is not a comparative advantage.** That’s a COMPETITIVE advantage. I know those words both start with a C, but “chocolate” and “cyanide” also both start with a C but you shouldn’t eat the latter for a snack. Oh for fuck’s sake. OK, China’s comparative advantage is in low skill labor. That is the thing they are better at than anything else they do. I have said this about half a dozen times and any time I say something that could possibly be interpreted as a competitive or absolute advantage you pretend I never heard those things and the argument starts all over again. The notion of comparative advantages at a national level frequently involves competitive and absolute advantages. > [@](#): > > You seem to switch between knowing what it is and then not knowing what it is. It’s bizarre. That is probably because you look for inconsistency where a reasonable reading would see a consistency. So do you now agree that you can have competitive advantage in labor instead of just a competitive advantage in a particular product? > [@](#): > > Longer than a few hours (that’s an absolutely comical answer, by the way; there is not a person on this earth who can learn how to use an industrial grade sewing machine well enough to make an acceptable product in a few hours. I doubt a Nobel laureate could do that.) What do you base that on? I used to run a sewing factory. Manual dexterity is probably much more important for running a sewing machine than IQ. Here is one of the most common “industrial grade” sewing machine. That machine is about the size of a lunch pail. > **[Merrow Industrial Overlock Serger Sewing Machine for sale | eBay](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Merrow%20industrial%20Overlock%20Serger%20sewing%20Machine)** > > Get the best deals for Merrow Industrial Overlock Serger Sewing Machine at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items! > [@](#): > > But then, what is it you’re sewing? You mentioned T-shirts. > [@](#): > > I do have three customers with a lot of tailors using sewing machines, but they all make different products, so it depends. I can ask them next time I’m there how long it takes for someone to be really productive, but my recollection (I have not been to any of them since October) was between three months to a year, and all were perpetually looking for good workers. Read what I said. A few hours to learn how to operate and a week to get up to speed. How do I know that it takes a week? Because that is about how long we give them before we fire them. You get someone that is green and you pay them by the piece. If they do not make enough pieces to earn the minimum wage, then we had to top them up so that they made minimum wage. If they had any proficiency at all, they were doing better than earning minimum wage by the end of the first week. If we had to top them up the second week we fired them and scratched our heads wondering why we didn’t fire them sooner. Most people didn’t need the top up the second week. > [@](#): > > Injection molding machines are harder. Learning how to use one doesn’t take super long. Learning how to be a genuinely productive employee takes much longer. I’ve done this too and the startup and take down of these machines, changing the mold, etc. might take some time to internalize but filling the plastic beads and making sure the machine doesn’t jam is pretty low skill labor. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/192 "2016-03-02T06:28:07Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Oh, lookee here: > > [President Obama signed a bill Wednesday that includes a provision banning U.S. imports of fish caught by slaves in Southeast Asia, gold mined by children in Africa and garments sewn by abused women in Bangladesh, closing a loophole in an 85-year-old tariff law that has failed to keep products of forced and child labor out of America.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-bans-u-s-imports-goods-produced-slavery-article-1.2543244) > > So, apparently, the US Congress and the President agree with me that there’s slave labor going on in SE Asia in the fishing industry. Fucking clowns in this thread. Next person who tries to dishonestly argue and tries to make up crap up about my position is going to get pitted. Perhaps you would like to respond to my questions to you? > [@bldysabba](#): > > And that is why you need to show that trade is driving slavery. If slavery is ocurring independently of trade, then by slapping a tariff, you may not help the slaves, but you will hurt the economy. In general equilibrium, you may even make the condition of those slaves worse, if their owners switch to serving the domestic market instead, and decide to squeeze their slaves to keep their own profits constant. > > On the contrary, using US trade power to try and fix complex local issues \* is \* stuffing a solution down their throats, and a solution by which you’ll likely end up harming more people than you help, including the ones you want to help. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/193 "2016-03-02T16:30:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake. OK, China’s comparative advantage is in low skill labor. That is the thing they are better at than anything else they do. That’s a COMPETITIVE advantage. “Low skilled labor” is not something you can trade internationally. You can trade T-shirts, iPhones, and those lousy replacement power cords for your laptop that break in four months. A country may have a comparative advantage in one or more of those products in part due to cheap labor, but the labor is not a trade good that can be traded abroad due to “comparative advantage.” It’s an input into the production of those goods. If cheap labor alone was the only aspect of a comparative advantage, China wouldn’t be exporting anything because there are places with cheaper labor. Clearly there’s something China’s got besides cheap labor. You can find cheaper. > [@](#): > > So do you now agree that you can have competitive advantage in labor instead of just a competitive advantage in a particular product? Of course. Cheaper inputs - labor, material, transport, energy, whatever - are a \*\*competitive \*\*advantage. Not a comparative one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/194 "2016-03-02T16:42:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course. Cheaper inputs - labor, material, transport, energy, whatever - are a \*\*competitive \*\*advantage. Not a comparative one. Here’s a decent explanation (not for **RickJay** , but others): > **[Comparative Advantage - Economics](http://economics.fundamentalfinance.com/micro_comparative.php)** > > Personal finance and economics Cheap labor isn’t a comparative advantage in itself; it makes the opportunity cost lower. The thing I’ve always wondered about comparative advantage between nations is that some nations are like smart, rich athletes- lots of resources, lots of technology, lots of relatively inexpensive skilled labor, while others seem to be special ed students, with none of the above. Does this whole free trade concept more or less doom them to poverty? Societies tend to have safety nets of some kind for people in that situation, but there isn’t anything similar on an international level. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/195 "2016-03-02T16:51:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And why should he be accepted as a good authority, in contrast to the strong majority of economists who agree that free trade is beneficial? ([Cite](http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_d68906VNWqVmiGN)). > > Regards, > Shodan That cite does not support your assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/196 "2016-03-02T18:48:33Z")
[quote=“RickJay, post:193, topic:743281”] That’s a COMPETITIVE advantage. [quote] I think we keep talking past each other. I should have just continued to use the term factory labor. They are better at factory labor than they are at raising beef or running call centers or waging war. All of these things require labor, and the cheaper the better. But they are better at factory labor than any of these other things. You seem to be saying that their comparative advantage is at making each of the things that they make a lot of. The particular thing changes on an almost seasonal basis but you seem to be saying that their comparative advantage can only be in a product that can be exported and not in the thing that is consistent in making those products. > [@](#): > > “Low skilled labor” is not something you can trade internationally. You can trade T-shirts, iPhones, and those lousy replacement power cords for your laptop that break in four months. A country may have a comparative advantage in one or more of those products in part due to cheap labor, but the labor is not a trade good that can be traded abroad due to “comparative advantage.” It’s an input into the production of those goods. > > If cheap labor alone was the only aspect of a comparative advantage, China wouldn’t be exporting anything because there are places with cheaper labor. Clearly there’s something China’s got besides cheap labor. You can find cheaper. I did mention environmental regulation and workplace safety. > [@](#): > > Of course. Cheaper inputs - labor, material, transport, energy, whatever - are a \*\*competitive \*\*advantage. Not a comparative one. I don’t know where we got off on this tangent, I’m done with it. If you can’t even address the lawyer secretary example, as an incidence of labor being a comparative advantage then there is really no further point in continuing with this tangent. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/197 "2016-03-02T19:00:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Here’s a decent explanation (not for **RickJay** , but others): > > [Comparative Advantage - Economics](http://economics.fundamentalfinance.com/micro_comparative.php) > > Cheap labor isn’t a comparative advantage in itself; it makes the opportunity cost lower. > The thing I’ve always wondered about comparative advantage between nations is that some nations are like smart, rich athletes- lots of resources, lots of technology, lots of relatively inexpensive skilled labor, while others seem to be special ed students, with none of the above. Does this whole free trade concept more or less doom them to poverty? Societies tend to have safety nets of some kind for people in that situation, but there isn’t anything similar on an international level. As you know, EVERY nation has a comparative advantage (its like their best feature, it may not be a particularly good feature but everyone has a best feature). Comparative advantage is effectively saying that you should play to your relative strengths. This tends to happen naturally in international trade. What countries can do is try to make themselves more competitive in higher value areas to shift their comparative advantages to higher value activities and the market will naturally start exporting and perhaps even start importing things that they used to export. A country full of dirt farmers will have a long way to go before they start making iphones China did it and there is no reason why other countries cannot do it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/198 "2016-03-02T19:07:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As you know, EVERY nation has a comparative advantage (its like their best feature, it may not be a particularly good feature but everyone has a best feature). Comparative advantage is effectively saying that you should play to your relative strengths. This tends to happen naturally in international trade. > > What countries can do is try to make themselves more competitive in higher value areas to shift their comparative advantages to higher value activities and the market will naturally start exporting and perhaps even start importing things that they used to export. > > A country full of dirt farmers will have a long way to go before they start making iphones China did it and there is no reason why other countries cannot do it. I mean "the market will naturally start exporting the those things and perhaps even start importing things that they used to export. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/199 "2016-03-02T19:29:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That cite does not support your assertion. There is a question B that asks if past major trade deals were beneficial and that seems to touch on the point he was making. I will note that in the comments, many economists point out that the country on average does better and the typical American does better but the benefits and burdens are not evenly distributed and we do not have good mechanisms for shifting benefits from some of the winners to some of the losers. I think we can all agree that the WORLD is better off with theoretical free trade; we might even be able to agree that America in the aggregate is better off but it is not at all clear that the typical American is better off. It certainly isn’t certain that the long run economy of America is better off if we gut the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281/200 "2016-03-02T19:53:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As you know, EVERY nation has a comparative advantage (its like their best feature, it may not be a particularly good feature but everyone has a best feature). Comparative advantage is effectively saying that you should play to your relative strengths. This tends to happen naturally in international trade. Not exactly. Read the cite. Comparative advantage means that it can be advantageous to outsource things even if the country outsourcing is better at that thing. If country A is five times better at producing widgets than country B, but only 50% better than country B at producing whatzits, it can make good economic sense to outsource the production of whatzits to B and for country A to concentrate on producing widgets. Because the opportunity cost of producing whatzits is lower for B than it is for A. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-good-reasons-to-be-anti-free-trade/743281.md?page=11)