# Are there high and low roads between disparate groups of political protestors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900 "2021-01-07T12:01:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/61 "2021-01-08T23:30:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > when politicians, the media, universities, etc. excuse mob violence as a legitimate means of advancing a political/ideological agenda But, as has been repeatedly pointed out, you haven’t shown (and I don’t know of) any evidence that “politicians, the media, universities, etc.” actually did “excuse mob violence as a legitimate means of advancing a political/ideological agenda” on the part of BLM and other left-wing protestors. Did they support peaceful protests and demonstrations for BLM and related causes? Sure. Did some of them say that some acts of violence and property destruction, while regrettable and counter-productive, were to some extent understandable? Sure. Did some of them say that some acts of civil disobedience, such as nonviolent “Occupy”-style sit-ins and encampments in public places, are legitimate? Sure. But actually excusing actual mob violence and declaring it to be “legitimate”? Nope, not AFAICT. If you claim differently, it’s time for you to come up with a cite. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/62 "2021-01-08T23:30:12Z")
100s of millions of dollars of damage, assaults with deadly weapons on police, burning courthouses and police stations, attacking elected officials, violently assaulting people for holding a different point of view actually is a more accurate description and yes that is an assault on the ideals of democracy. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/63 "2021-01-08T23:35:16Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > You mention “disruptive protests.” There is a significant difference IMO between protests directed against private property, and taking over governmental buildings with the intent to disrupt governmental actions/services. I know in my city, there were BLM protests and violence, including arson, directed at a courthouse, a police precinct building, and a justice center that contains a jail. In some of those cases, perimeters were set up around the buildings, as should have been done at the capitol. Huge reactions (over the top) by the police occurred from individuals touching, shaking, or making momentary incursions past those barriers. The entire assembly would be “declared unlawful” and tear gassing, etc. would ensue. I supported the need to protect those public buildings, and to take strong action when people actually tried to or did break in, or were trying to or actually did set fires. The capitol should have been defended much better, and a stronger response should have happened when a large number of people became a threat. I think it’s important to not lump all BLM protests in as presenting the same issues. > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > The BLM riots were underpinned by legitimate grievances. Black people were being essentially murdered without consequence by the police and by private citizens. The January 6 riot was underpinned by absurd conspiracy theories, actively promoted by billion dollar media companies and by the President of the United States (mostly for cynical, amoral, self-serving reasons). This is significant in terms of moral judgment. > [@cessna99](#): > > While the attack on the WH and congress was violent mayhem, there is no evidence that 100% of the protestors intended to commit violent acts, nor did anything of the sort. Already pointed out as a straw man, and also: Maybe not violence, but I’m pretty sure 100% of the people who broke into the Capitol building, and also those who entered after the breaking, actually committed a crime. A tiny percentage of the many BLM protestors who were tear gassed and otherwise physically assaulted were the ones actually committing crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/64 "2021-01-08T23:36:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > 100s of millions of dollars of damage, assaults with deadly weapons on police, burning courthouses and police stations, attacking elected officials, violently assaulting people for holding a different point of view actually is a more accurate description and yes that is an assault on the ideals of democracy. No, it is not more accurate. The overwhelming majority of the protests were peaceful. But you want to ignore that overwhelming majority of peaceful protest and only talk about the small minority of rioting that damaged property. This is the opposite of trying to be accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/65 "2021-01-08T23:40:05Z")
> [@cessna99](#): > > While the attack on the WH and congress was violent mayhem, there is no evidence that 100% of the protestors intended to commit violent acts, nor did anything of the sort. That claim is hyperbolic. One hundred percent of the protestors were trying to overturn the outcome of a democratic election. Trying to overthrow democracy is a lot worse than arson or looting. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/66 "2021-01-08T23:43:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One hundred percent of the protestors were trying to overturn the outcome of a democratic election. Trying to overthrow democracy is a lot worse than arson or looting. Yes. BLM protestors predominantly wanted to peacefully effect change in our system of policing and government. There were also some nonpeaceful people who joined in. The people who invaded the Capitol were trying to violently overthrow our system of government to make their preferred leader remain president after he was defeated in a democratic election. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/67 "2021-01-09T00:47:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Political violence is inexcusable regardless of who is doing the goofy slogan chanting or flag waving. Dude, while you’re sitting here scolding us for the existence of a small minority of violent left-wingers in this past summer’s overwhelmingly peaceful BLM protests, your fellow Trump voters are out on social media planning for further violent attacks in protest of what they delusionally persist in considering a “stolen” election. If you’re really opposed to political violence, you need to be trying to persuade your side to see that point. Not sitting here comfortably explaining to all us violence-rejecting liberals why so-called “cancel culture” is just as dangerous to democracy as breaking into a legislative building with the aim of taking legislators hostage and preventing the certification of a legitimate election, don’cha know. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/68 "2021-01-09T03:01:43Z")
I don’t post on any pro-Trump or majority right wing or majority Republican sites. Furthermore, if I did I highly doubt I’d have any more influence there than I do here. People are prone to believe what they wish, regardless of cites or evidence. It’s shameful that people are willfully myopic to push an ideology. I can’t help the right wing loons any more than you can help the left wing loons. What would I say in those circles? “Um guys, political violence is bad!” The thing is, everyone rational knows that and speaks out against it. The irrational or the evil promote or excuse it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/69 "2021-01-09T03:29:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What would I say in those circles? “Um guys, political violence is bad!” The thing is, everyone rational knows that and speaks out against it. The irrational or the evil promote or excuse it. But let’s stop talking about violent rioting and talk about peaceful protest. Do you feel peaceful protest should be allowed? Yes or no. Do you feel that the police killing an ongoing series of black people in questionable circumstances is a cause that justifies peaceful protest? Yes or no. Do you feel rejecting the results of an election because you don’t agree with the outcome is a cause that justifies peaceful protest? Yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/70 "2021-01-09T03:54:27Z")
I’m fine for peaceful protest or assembly for practically any cause. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/71 "2021-01-09T03:55:19Z")
But on those two specific causes, yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/72 "2021-01-09T03:57:22Z")
Absolutely yes. Not even sure why that’s a question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/73 "2021-01-09T04:03:03Z")
It’s a question because a lot of people, and I include myself, would say that trying to overturn the outcome of a democratic election because you do not agree with the result is not a good cause. I do not support the cause of the people who were protesting against the election this week. Their cause is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/74 "2021-01-09T04:06:49Z")
As for the cause of BLM, you say that you support that cause as long as it’s being protesting over in a peaceful manner. So I must assume you supported Colin Kaepernick and the other athletes who knelt down during the national anthem. That was undeniably a peaceful protest for that cause. Can you provide a link to the posts you made so we can see how you supported Kaepernick’s protest and the cause? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/75 "2021-01-09T04:34:37Z")
And whether or you support the cause or not is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/76 "2021-01-09T04:42:45Z")
I specifically asked you if you felt these were causes that justified peaceful protest. I asked you for your opinions on the worthiness of these causes. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/77 "2021-01-09T04:51:52Z")
It’s justified if people wish to do so. There is no further requirement. None. Zilch. Worthiness is not a consideration. At all. I can’t make it any more clear that people don’t need to run things by the Party, the admins, the mods, mom or dad, or whomever to exercise their rights. Some of this is from the pit so be forewarned. > [@NFL: Stand for the anthem or stay in the locker room.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-stand-for-the-anthem-or-stay-in-the-locker-room/814701/159): > > > [@NFL: Stand for the anthem or stay in the locker room.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-stand-for-the-anthem-or-stay-in-the-locker-room/814701/155): > > > > Opting out of a ritual designed to show respect to something is a calculated way to show disrespect. It is obvious. If he said different he is lying. > > > > > He did it to cause controversy so his political views would get more publicity. That was his intention. > > No it’s not. It’s not disrespectful to choose not to participate in a ritual, be it religious, nationalistic, virtue signaling, etc that one does not agree with. What Kaepernick did vis kneeling should have been more or less ignored. It wasn’t offensive and it was actually brave. Now you may disagree with his message or stance. That’s your right as well. > > But ascribing motives or financially ruining/harming a person over a difference in point of view is disturbing and dangerous. The sad thing is that is now the accepted way of handling differences of opinion. > [@Covington Catholic High (in case it hasn't been mentioned already)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/382): > > > [@Covington Catholic High (in case it hasn't been mentioned already)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/covington-catholic-high-in-case-it-hasnt-been-mentioned-already/828090/379): > > > > Just as long as you are aware that the phenomenon you are describing is a human thing, not a political side thing. > > I thought the outrage over Kaepernick’s refusing to stand was a bit silly. I don’t like coerced conformity or patriotism. > [@Unite the Right Racist Scum](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/168): > > I think virtue signaling is stupid but here’s an example of where I disagree with many on the right. Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the anthem was criticized. I believe forced patriotism is wrong. I support Kaepernick’s right to kneel and not participate. I find it brave. I’m sad he lost his job. Does that mean I hate America because I support his rights? > I can’t believe I’m having to have this discussion. > [@Living while black in America](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/559): > > BLM, Kaepernick, etc. have a valid point and I haven’t criticized Kaepernick. I support his point of view actually. > [@"Clean" hit on a player, but clearly malicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-hit-on-a-player-but-clearly-malicious/796255/10): > > I have to disagree with your characterization of Kaepernick. It takes bravery to suffer for acting one’s conscience and I think none of us want to live in a nation in which one is forced to engage in patriotic symbolism. > [@August 2018 White Civil Rights Rally in Washington, DC.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/august-2018-white-civil-rights-rally-in-washington-dc/816575/113): > > I defended Colin Kaepernick in several posts. Anyways, I hoped I passed whatever silly test you think you are administering. I don’t believe in freedom and liberty for pet classes and special people only. I think freedom and liberty are important for every human and I have consistently argued for such. Double standards while a feature and not a bug on social media, web forums, and the media aren’t really something that should be advocated when the topic is as important as _individual_ rights and _individual_ freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/78 "2021-01-09T05:10:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s justified if people wish to do so. I’m not asking what people think. I’m asking what you personally think about these particular causes. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/79 "2021-01-09T05:15:34Z")
You asked if they are justified or should be allowed. I said absolutely. There is nothing else to add. Now what about your insinuation that I am somehow insincere or hypocritical that prompted the Kaepernick question. You still think that that was some sort of gotcha? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900/80 "2021-01-09T10:35:38Z")
Pertinent video to the topic of this thread: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8lz702NhyKY/hqdefault.jpg "Let's talk about context and the events of Capitol Hill....") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lz702NhyKY) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-high-and-low-roads-between-disparate-groups-of-political-protestors/929900.md?page=5)