# Are There IMMORTALS Among Us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 8, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811 "2003-08-08T12:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/21 "2003-08-08T18:13:28Z")
Well, I’m working on it. Stay tuned. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/22 "2003-08-08T18:41:04Z")
Well, I’m immortal … so far. It’s a “take it one day at a time” thing, doncha know. ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/23 "2003-08-08T19:39:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*Your remark is more than slightly insulting. > > [list=1] > [li]I am not an anti-Semite.[/li][li]I am not stupid enough to buy into their cr#p.[/li][li]Do not make these insinuations again, outside of the Pit.[/li][li]If you do make them in the Pit, you’d better be prepared to back them up with something better than this claptrap.[/li][/list=1] :mad: \*\* Whoa, calm down there… I wasn’t accusing you of anything, **Bosda** , but I guess it could be read that way. I was simply surmising that what you only described as “Hebrew tradition” had been _corrupted_ by these “conspiracy nut-jobs” into the Zionist Elders crap. I didn’t mean to suggest _you_ were one of these types. My apologies for being too terse. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/24 "2003-08-08T19:41:34Z")
For what it’s worth, I definitely side with **Bosda** (who I think is a really cool poster). The idea of the 36 _tzaddiqim_ is prevalent, especially in Lubavitcher Chassidism. The source of this is from the Talmud: “There are not less than 36 tzaddikim/righteous persons in the world who receive the Shekhinah/the Divine Presence” - from the Babylonian Talmud: Sanhedrin 97b, Sukkot 45b. (This according to [http://www.toddweinstein.com/art/text.htm](http://www.toddweinstein.com/art/text.htm)). Also: > [@](#): > > According to the Talmud, in each generation there are at least 36 righteous men in the world, for whose sake the world escapes destruction. This is based on Yeshayahu 30:18 “ashrei kol-chochey lo blessed are all those who wait for him”, where the word lo has the numerical value of 36 (Sanhedrin 97b). Hence the popular belief that there are, concealed, 36 tzaddikim, otherwise referred to as nistarim (anonymous), who sustain the entire world wherein they are dispersed. According to Yoma 38b, one righteous man can ensure the existence of the world. No sooner is one righteous man removed from the world than he is succeeded by another righteous man as good as he. The righteous man is he who is saturated with Torah and possesses within himself the instrument of dealing a deadly blow to the evil inclination (yetzer ha-ra). From [http://headcoverings-by-devorah.com/OrachChayim/HebglossTz.html](http://headcoverings-by-devorah.com/OrachChayim/HebglossTz.html) under “Tzaddik (pl. Tzaddikim)”. Other links are: [http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=54382](http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=54382) - a story from [Chabad.org](http://Chabad.org) [http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=2136](http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=2136) - another story from [Chabad.org](http://Chabad.org) As an aside, the charge of believing in or promoting anti-Zionist conspiracyism is a very serious one and should not be lobbed without serious consideration, forethought, and preparation to present proof thereof. I am quite puzzled what would make **av8rmike** think that **Bosda** ’s post was what he claimed it to be. Sounds like quite an innocent belief. For what it’s worth, despite studying Judaism for so long and having been aware of this tradition, it totally slipped my mind until **Bosda** mentioned it. WRS - _be’ezret HaShem_ ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/25 "2003-08-08T20:16:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiff \* > \*\*Well, I’m immortal … so far. > > It’s a “take it one day at a time” thing, doncha know. \*\* Actually it’s quite easy. I’m not sure where the instruction came from but the only requirement is that you make sure to breath in right after you breath out. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/26 "2003-08-08T20:32:36Z")
Vandervecken The Struldbrugs Tithonus Some people are cursed to stay alive forever… See also the concept of Quantum Immortality; if true, we are all immortals; [http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum\_immortality](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_immortality) * * * SF worldbuilding at [http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html](http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html) ---
**Author:** ![don\_willard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@don\_willard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_willard)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/27 "2003-08-08T20:35:23Z")
The way I heard it was that there were 36 righteous men in the world . However, even they don’t know who they are. Which is a clever addition to the lore, if true. It makes one more thoughtful, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Kjetil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc8723/32.png) [@Kjetil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kjetil)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/28 "2003-08-08T21:02:48Z")
IIRC I heard someone explaining why we die on the radio months ago. (Notice how wildly unreferenced this post is… It was probably on Norwegian station NRK Alltid Nyheter or the BBC World Service.) Thing is, after a while our cells stop dividing, or whatever it was, or something. This is built in - if they didn’t, we’d drop dead from cancer a lot sooner than we now drop dead from old age. …So just find a different way to prevent cancer, and reengineer how cells work, or maybe it was DNA, what do I know, and people could live forever. …Note that this is the online version of What Some Bloke Said In The Pub. I have no clue. =) ---
**Author:** ![Kjetil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc8723/32.png) [@Kjetil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kjetil)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/29 "2003-08-08T21:02:48Z")
IIRC I heard someone explaining why we die on the radio months ago. (Notice how wildly unreferenced this post is… It was probably on Norwegian station NRK Alltid Nyheter or the BBC World Service.) Thing is, after a while our cells stop dividing, or whatever it was, or something. This is built in - if they didn’t, we’d drop dead from cancer a lot sooner than we now drop dead from old age. …So just find a different way to prevent cancer, and reengineer how cells work, or maybe it was DNA, what do I know, and people could live forever. …Note that this is the online version of What Some Bloke Said In The Pub. I have no clue. =) ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/30 "2003-08-08T21:05:12Z")
“We feel and know we are eternal.”–Spinoza There are plenty of philosophers/theologians who have thought that every one of us _is_ immortal. The decay, worms and ashes thing just makes internalizing it kinda tough. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/31 "2003-08-08T21:31:35Z")
Well, depends. What is “us” - our bodies or our souls/spirits. If it’s the former, we’re all mortal. If the latter, many would argue we’re all immortal or at least some of us are immortal\*. No proof for the latter, though. \*If a remember correctly, Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the saved/redeemed will reawake after the Parousia (Second Coming) while the damned will not wake up, condemned to having their life ended upon physical death. WRS ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/32 "2003-08-08T21:36:33Z")
My friend, the answer to this question is going to come down to your opinion. Creation or Evolution? > [@](#): > > Lucifer is Perdition. He became such by open rebellion against the truth, a rebellion in the face of light and knowledge. Although he knew God and had been taught the provisions of the plan of salvation, he defied the Lord and sought to enthrone himself with the Lord’s power. (Moses 4:1-4.) He thus committed the unpardonable sin. In rebellion with him were one-third of the spirit hosts of heaven. These all were thus followers (or in other words sons) of perdition. They were denied bodies, were cast out onto the earth, and thus came the devil and his angels – a great host of sons of perdition. > > Those in this life who gain a perfect knowledge of the divinity of the gospel cause, a knowledge that comes only by revelation from the Holy Ghost, and who then link themselves with Lucifer and come out in open rebellion, also become sons of perdition. Their destiny, following their resurrection, is to be cast out with the devil and his angels, to inherit the same kingdom in a state where “their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” (D. & C. 76:32-49; 29:27-30; Heb. 6:4-8; 2 Pet. 2:20-22; 2 Ne. 9:14-16; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 47-49; vol. 2, pp. 218-225.) > > Joseph Smith said: "All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. (Teachings, p. 358.) ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/33 "2003-08-08T21:38:05Z")
Mormon rumor has it that their are seven sons of perdition, and the way that you can know them is that when you meet them, they will not shake your hand. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/34 "2003-08-08T22:17:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiff \* > \*\*Well, I’m immortal … so far. > > It’s a “take it one day at a time” thing, doncha know. \*\* “I intend to live forever – or die trying!” --Spider Robinson ---
**Author:** ![SpaceForRent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@SpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/35 "2003-08-08T22:40:28Z")
> [@](#): > > According to Latter-day Saint tradition, there are four immortal people: John the Divine, according to section 7 of Doctrine and Covenants, which can be found at [http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/7;](http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/7;) and the Three Nephites, who are unnamed (“Nephites” means a descendant of Nephi who was a member of a family that came to the American continent on the order of God). The Three Nephites’ immortality is according to chapter 28 of 3 Nephi, which can be found at [http://scriptures.lds.org/3\_ne/28](http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/28). > > WRS Five, actually. I believe. Throw Cain onto that list, though his was more a curse than anything. > [@](#): > > Mormon rumor has it that their are seven sons of perdition, and the way that you can know them is that when you meet them, they will not shake your hand. Never heard that. Not seven sons of perdition, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/36 "2003-08-08T22:53:05Z")
There are many immortals among us, but there can be only one! In several of the sci-fi stories that I’ve read concering immortals living among mortals, they are explained as not being actually immortal, but merely ageing at a vastly reduced rate (maybe 1/100th of the normal) as a resul;t of some freak mutation - this makes for a good story, but usually skirts round (or totally ignores) the fact that immortals would spend several hundred years as vulnerable toddlers - unable to assume a series of identities by themselves. ---
**Author:** ![suezeekay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@suezeekay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suezeekay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/37 "2003-08-09T05:08:29Z")
Art Bell (Coast to Coast radio) used to put aside a night every once in a while for Immortals to call in; he always got lots of calls. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/38 "2003-08-09T07:31:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kjetil \* > Thing is, after a while our cells stop dividing, or whatever it was, or something. This is built in - if they didn’t, we’d drop dead from cancer a lot sooner than we now drop dead from old age. I suspect they were talking about telomeres. Rather than explain them myself, you can read about them [here](http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/T/Telomeres.html). ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/39 "2003-08-09T08:27:52Z")
## quote: ## Originally posted by Kjetil Thing is, after a while our cells stop dividing, or whatever it was, or something. This is built in - if they didn’t, we’d drop dead from cancer a lot sooner than we now drop dead from old age. Well if you use this logic, then look at a dog, then look at a human, you’d be hard pressed to explain why the human can live so long without dying of cancer not long after the dog. Obviously it’s a bit more complex than that, animals are programmed by their genes to live as long as they do, and once this programming is sorted out, there will be effectively immortal people. People reach a certain point, and their bodies stop repairing themselves properly. It is quite possible that somehow somewhere, there is someone with a mutation in the gene that makes a difference in the lifespan of a dog vs the lifespan of a human, that indefinately extends said lifespan. However, it is extremely unlikely, it probably involves multiple genes, and all such genes would have to be mutated in the same way- towards longer life. It is much more likely that someday in the future, someone will make such a combination of genes on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Alcibiades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Alcibiades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alcibiades)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811/40 "2003-08-09T13:53:18Z")
The Comte de St Germain is a key character in Umberto Eco’s Foucault’s Pendulum (one of those books I like having on my library shelf, read with great concentration, and just didn’t get it). On a more accessible level, in volume 8 of Neil Gaiman’s award winning and acclaimed Sandman comics, there is a discussion of the number of people who have been around for a long time. One of them gets killed by a falling brick wall, while thinking of the smell of wet mammoths in his youth. Outside the realm of literature, I did read somewhere that a particularly long-lived people in Nepal grew back their teeth when they were in their 120s, suggesting that humans might be designed to live for a long time. No cite, sorry, and I’d be interested to know if indeed it was factually true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-immortals-among-us/193811.md?page=3)