# Are there kids who absolutly cannot be educated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494 "2013-01-17T10:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/61 "2013-01-30T15:55:10Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I have horror and shock over it myself. But we do not have unlimited resources. If we were willing to dump endless dollars into schools, it would be different. But with limited public dollars we need to make choices. Do we spend a lot of money on one child and less on fifty others? Do we educate at the expense of health care? Or housing for the poor? Or economic incentives that provide jobs? Or repairing our crumbling infrastructure? Or a national defense? > > What gives us the most benefit as a society? If you had someone you love die of cancer, as I did recently, you can’t spend enough on cancer research. But you can spend too much on cancer research when it means not spending on education. The answer involves balance. And balance involves a resolution for situations that are unbalanced. This is one Just keep in mind that this argument has been used to justify excluding all kinds of special ed kids from schools who even you agree should be educated. And it is being used to get rid of sports, music, drama, art, etc. in schools too. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/62 "2013-01-30T16:48:20Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Just keep in mind that this argument has been used to justify excluding all kinds of special ed kids from schools who even you agree should be educated. And it is being used to get rid of sports, music, drama, art, etc. in schools too. Yep. At my kids school we have had to pay to have your kids involved in sports, music, drama, etc. for two decades. But we have more specialists and aides in the district than teachers. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/63 "2013-01-30T16:58:08Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yep. > > At my kids school we have had to pay to have your kids involved in sports, music, drama, etc. for two decades. But we have more specialists and aides in the district than teachers. Does your payment cover all costs of the sports, music and drama programs? And that’s just extracurricular. Would you support getting rid of physical education, music and art instruction etc. during the school day to save money? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/64 "2013-01-30T18:33:37Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Does your payment cover all costs of the sports, music and drama programs? > > And that’s just extracurricular. Would you support getting rid of physical education, music and art instruction etc. during the school day to save money? Covers all of it and gone. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/65 "2013-01-30T18:42:19Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Covers all of it and gone. I don’t understand what you mean. You’re saying every single cost of sports, drama, music, art etc., including teacher’s time, is paid for by the students participating only? Are you saying that for in-school activities like PE or music and art classes too? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/66 "2013-01-30T18:59:07Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Covers all of it and gone. I should be clearer. Phy Ed is mandated by the state, so that still exists. But art, music and librarians have disappeared over the past twenty years in my district. There are no art classes. Extracurriculars are paid for via fees. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/67 "2013-01-30T20:24:02Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I should be clearer. Phy Ed is mandated by the state, so that still exists. Should the state drop the mandate and schools end Phys. Ed? It’s not really necessary. It’s wasting precious money that could be used to teach reading and math. > [@](#): > > But art, music and librarians have disappeared over the past twenty years in my district. There are no art classes. Extracurriculars are paid for via fees. Ah. I see. So you are one of those who should have already learned this lesson. This situation is truly pathetic. I can’t believe your district is in such dire straits. What terrible schools you must have. Even the worst school systems these days still have libraries and art and music, in some form or another. If you don’t mind sharing, which district is this? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/68 "2013-01-30T20:46:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Should the state drop the mandate and schools end Phys. Ed? It’s not really necessary. It’s wasting precious money that could be used to teach reading and math. > > Ah. I see. So you are one of those who should have already learned this lesson. > > This situation is truly pathetic. I can’t believe your district is in such dire straits. What terrible schools you must have. Even the worst school systems these days still have libraries and art and music, in some form or another. > > If you don’t mind sharing, which district is this? What lesson… Fund your schools. Yes, I think you should fund your schools. However, when you don’t, it isn’t fair to disproportionally allocate resources with such disparity. And the schools perform above state average in Math and Reading. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/69 "2013-01-30T21:28:38Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > What lesson… Fund your schools. Yes, I think you should fund your schools. However, when you don’t, it isn’t fair to disproportionally allocate resources with such disparity. Why not? > [@](#): > > And the schools perform above state average in Math and Reading. Great. I think it’s possible to do that without having to cut all PE, art, music, drama, etc. I’m still curious what district has such barebones cuts to its schools. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/70 "2013-01-31T03:15:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > At my kids school we have had to pay to have your kids involved in sports, music, drama, etc. for two decades. What’s this “my kids” and “your kids” jazz? At least in my State, schools are primarily funded via property tax and Federal matching. The Fed matching I believe comes mainly from income tax. That funding comes from taxpayers that may not even have school age children and goes to all kids, to gifted kids and to kids with special needs. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/71 "2013-01-31T10:09:16Z")
> [@](#): > > One decade’s “never going to learn” is another decade’s Master’s Thesis. The friend I described can’t function on her own nearly as well as a toddler can, so you’re going to have to come up with some other rubric to measure your “extreme profound/severe kids” by. By your toddler function standard, a woman with a Master’s Degree is “never going to learn”, so it’s obviously a flawed standard . Not really. She is PHYSICALLY severely disabled, but she is NOT MENTALLY severe/profoundly disabled. There’s a difference. People with severe/profound physical issues, when given the proper tools can be incredibily smart. Whereas people with severe/profound MR would be able to just do very basic communication. For kids with CP, there’s always the possibility that they are smarter then the experts think. Heck, I know of a person with a severe chromosome disorder (the kind of disorder where the kid is in a motorized chair, has a communication board and about ten million different medical problems) who was thought to be profoundly mentally disabled. His parents got him a computer and turns out he can read and write! However, There are always going to be kids who for whatever reason cannot be educated (as we think of it…even on the par of severe/profound MR education) due to things like profound brain abnormalities, like lissencephaly, severe and moderate holoproscephaly, and profound/severe brain damage. Hydranencephaly and so on. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/72 "2013-01-31T10:34:14Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The woman with CP is my friend. (As is her mother, but that’s just confusing.) And you know…I have no idea what her schooling as a child looked like. I’ll have to ask her. Considering that she’s 40 now, I’m guessing she wasn’t mainstreamed, and probably wasn’t even in a special ed classroom, just based on the history of special education. > This sounds fantastically wonderful. If I were Queen of the World and could bestow funding where I wanted, these would be the schools for kids like my friend was and they’d have more staff, more seats and be in more towns than they are now. Exactly, and I do think that the overwhelming majority of kids can and do learn very well. Even the overwhelming majority of severe and profound MENTALLY handicapped kids can “learn” at their own level, and can benefit from day programs. Thing is, I think a lot of the people in this thread think I’m globally attacking ALL severe and profound kids for having an education. I’m not. I interact with severe and profound mentally handicapped kids quite regularly. Lots of them can and do learn and interact. Heck, the majority of them can and do learn and interact. Even many if not most profound kids can! One of my friends actually works with a lot of kids like that. (she’s a speech therapist for severe/profound kids) But what I’m talking about are kids who are at the extreme profound end of the spectrum…There’s a site out there, that I do not want to link to, as I have a feeling the mother will get really upset. (I know of her from online interactions) But this is the way she describes her three year old daughter (who has a severe genetic disorder and survived cardiac arrest.) > [@](#): > > \_\_\_ is now thriving in life, relearning reflexes. She knows of our love, can tell apart each of her nurses (even gives them an initiation on their first day of work), knows pain, and can communicate with us in her own way. This is someone who is on an extreme profound level…Yes, she’s loved, but she’s also on a very very basic and primitive level, even for a profound kid. (most profound kids are at the level of babies) ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/73 "2013-01-31T10:37:35Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t think anyone disagrees with that point. > > The implication, though, is that there are lots of kids like that in schools. There aren’t. The other implication is the OP author or anyone else can just look at a kid and tell he can’t be educated. That’s bullshit. > > Most of the kids who we all agree CAN be educated would have been judged uneducable just a few decades ago. So pretending that this is a simple discussion is a mistake. I am not saying that. I never said that…but you CAN observe quite a few kids and realize that they cannot interact except at a very basic level. Some of them cannot even do so. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/74 "2013-01-31T14:15:46Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Whereas people with severe/profound MR would be able to just do very basic communication. Well, just a decade or so ago, many kids with autism (who were once labeled MR) were thought to be unable to communicate. Now some write books. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/75 "2013-01-31T14:17:06Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > I am not saying that. I never said that…but you CAN observe quite a few kids and realize that they cannot interact except at a very basic level. So you say you aren’t saying it - and then you say it. No, you CANNOT just look at a kid and know his intellectual abilities, or even his ability to interact. EVER. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/76 "2013-02-01T01:06:28Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > You’re missing that back in those days kids with ANY type of nereological issue were dumped in the insistutions. It wasn’t just profound or severe. Right now I’m talking about extreme profound kids…Most kids with mental disability or autism will be pretty functional…and they DO deserve an education…But what if they got the education at a SPECIALIZED placement, rather then the Local Public School? People think insistution and they think something like Willowbrook, where a kid is left to rot in a room. I disagree vehemently with something like that > What about something like this? [http://www.mhsf.us/](http://www.mhsf.us/) or [http://cushingcenters.com/programs-services/](http://cushingcenters.com/programs-services/) or [http://www.crystalspringsinc.org/](http://www.crystalspringsinc.org/) or > [http://www.crotchedmountain.org/School/School/](http://www.crotchedmountain.org/School/School/) Those are all classified as “insistutions”. But I’m just saying that there are kids who are so impaired they don’t even know who their parent is and they don’t even smile… Our two day programs are quite similar to those you’ve linked, but in the last 20 years we have operated, we have never been classified as an institution, neither by ourselves or others. I’m not missing the point at all…back then, they were all judged to be uneducateable…and they were wrong, because they (the State) knew little about proper assessment and treatment of each individual and their capabilities. It would be tragic to repeat that same type of mindset again when we are learning more about these neurological issues that may interfere with an accurate intellectual assessment. We have first hand documentation of this in some the files of the clients we serve, some done by the same doctor and/or psych. > [@WhyNot](#): > > Would anyone here disagree with the notion that there’s \*some \*percentage of spending which is unacceptable if spent on the education of a single child in a public school system? > > If 99 cents of every dollar being spent by your school district is being spent on Sally Smith, and there are resource shortages within the district, is that too much? > > If we can’t get agreement on that point, the rest of the discussion is pointless. > > If we can get agreement on that point, then we’re just quibbling over what that percentage is, and if the student’s apparent ability to learn should be figured in to that equation. > > Me, I think we’re at an uncomfortable spot in neurobehavioral science right now. We know that we don’t know, but we don’t yet know how to know, whether some individuals are capable of learning, especially when they’re young children. So I think it best that we err on the side of there being “somebody home”, but that does need to be balanced with everyone else’s need for a decent education, too. I don’t know how to do that. > > Anecdote time: > . > . > . > So who decides? Me? The principal or superintendent? The student? The student’s family? Doctors? I don’t have good answers, but I can definitely understand the questions. > > \*(She also has a wicked sense of humor and a potty mouth. Woman can swear like a sailor, one letter at a time…) Excellent post, WhyNot. Let me answer your last question on who decides…Time. And now for a parallel argument…If you are the State and you suspect/accuse a person of murder, you don’t just jail or execute them on the spot. You have to build a case through solid evidence to put that person at the scene with the weapon and convince a jury that it is irrefutable evidence. Let’s say you did that and the jury finds that person guilty and subject to capital punishment. Do you execute him now, or do you allow time for multiple appeals? How about time for discovery of new evidence that may change the level of the offense or even completely turn the conviction around? How about clemency if extenuating circumstances exist? New technology (ex. DNA testing) that might exonerate the convict? We do this because the State only wants to execute the actual murderer, not an innocent. Even though it costs millions of dollars more to follow this procedure, we do it because the State wants to make sure that no innocent people are executed. But it’s not a perfect system… the State has more than likely already executed innocent people. Would it be in the States best interest to cut funding and execute the convicted right after the trial? No. But, the money saved could go to the rest of the inmates who are not on death row because of lesser convictions, and the State could give them less crowded conditions, better programs to reduce recitivism, etc. Would that be in the best interest of the State if a few more innocent are executed? No. Maybe it would be better to not have capital punishment at all and have each inmate treated the same as possible according to their sentence and have those sentences reviewed if there are new laws made/passed that would affect the entire system of inmates? That seems to be the more progressive view. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > You mean extreme profound/severe kids right? Again as I have said, the overwhelming majority of kids with sped issues can and do aquire at least functional skills…Even moderate kids can do sheltered workshop type stuff. …But at the same time, its like the population we’re talking about, functions at best on the level of a toddler. Not to mention when they graduate, they go into day programs …and those kids are a lot more functional then the type of kid I was talking about. Oh boy…I do think that there needs to be special funding for those kids. It’s a FACT that there are kids who are just totally and completely Impaired, and can NEVER do anything. They’re going to be essentially babies for the rest of their lives. Yes, we should take care of them…but they are never going to learn. Yes, it’s all Warm and Fuzzy to hear about those kids who achieve more then anyone ever thought possible…but how often does that happen? I have a syndrome that can and does cause profound and severe mental disability…I’ve seen some really bad kids, and some really delusional parents. Heck, lance strongarm almost sounds like this parent: [http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foliot/savage/](http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foliot/savage/) > > WHAT??? Talk about EUPHANISM!!! Those two girls are PROFOUNDLY affected! [http://www.rarediseases.org/rare-disease-information/rare-diseases/byID/970/viewAbstract](http://www.rarediseases.org/rare-disease-information/rare-diseases/byID/970/viewAbstract) > and [http://cortfoundation.org/cms/get-informed/associated-syndromes/walker-warburg-syndrome/](http://cortfoundation.org/cms/get-informed/associated-syndromes/walker-warburg-syndrome/) I’m not seeing the comparison you’re trying to make from those sites to Lance. > [@WhyNot](#): > > As far as I know, these are meaningless terms in current medical theory, diagnosis and treatment. > > One decade’s “never going to learn” is another decade’s Master’s Thesis. The friend I described can’t function on her own nearly as well as a toddler can, so you’re going to have to come up with some other rubric to measure your “extreme profound/severe kids” by. By your toddler function standard, a woman with a Master’s Degree is “never going to learn”, so it’s obviously a flawed standard. > > Absolutely. I totally completely agree with this. I think it’s a waste of public resources to “educate” such kids in mainstream public schools. I’d rather see respite care for their caregivers and compassionate sensory stimulation for them, paid for out of medical, not educational, funds. > > I also don’t think you’ve demonstrated anything which convinces me that you can correctly identify these kids in a lineup. > > Can the doctors and special ed teachers and parents? I’m not sure. Sometimes. Sometimes they get it wrong. But I think they’ve got a little better shot at getting it right than you or I do, if for no other reason than they’ve actually sat with the individual in question and assessed them, not a picture or description of them. Again, good post…and we are still wondering if these funds ACTUALLY came from a general education budget, or a special education budget. I’ve noticed that some posters here didn’t choose to address this. Even though my son is at a general ed public school, the classroom, teacher and aides are from a special ed budget. It would be all too easy for someone to wrongly assume that my son is sucking up resources from the gen ed budget. I wonder if some posters here are doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/77 "2013-02-01T01:12:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, just a decade or so ago, many kids with autism (who were once labeled MR) were thought to be unable to communicate. Now some write books. [And even those that have been institutionalized and unable to communicate, are learning and communicated AFTER they leave the institution.](http://www.hulu.com/watch/337446) Warning: You will be actually watching a full length film on hulu, but it is worthwhile and relevant to this thread. “More Like You Than Not.” ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/78 "2013-02-01T10:52:30Z")
On the other hand there is a HUGE difference between say a kid with autism who has the splinter skills to be able to read and write or a kid with CP who can communicate via eyegaze etc vs. the type of kid who has a profound brain issue that no matter WHAT the kid is given, will always be at the mental level of an infant…and some even WORSE!!! . Ever interacted with a kid with significant holoproscencephly? What about lissencephaly? What about hydrancenphaly? They have profound brain issues that cannot rewire themselves…Granted the percentage of kids who have extreme profound issues is really rare…but still… ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/79 "2013-02-01T12:15:26Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > On the other hand there is a HUGE difference between say a kid with autism who has the splinter skills to be able to read and write or a kid with CP who can communicate via eyegaze etc vs. the type of kid who has a profound brain issue that no matter WHAT the kid is given, will always be at the mental level of an infant…and some even WORSE!!! . Ever interacted with a kid with significant holoproscencephly? What about lissencephaly? What about hydrancenphaly? They have profound brain issues that cannot rewire themselves…Granted the percentage of kids who have extreme profound issues is really rare…but still… OK, if you can find me even **one single case** of a child with lissencephaly being educated in a mainstream classroom with public education funds, I’ll buy you a cookie. ETA: Actually, I may have to take that offer back, as wikipedia indicates that some minor forms of lissencephaly show “near-normal development and intelligence.” So just goes to show that neither you nor I should be the ones making these decisions, and we certainly shouldn’t be judging them on diagnosis alone. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494/80 "2013-02-01T12:47:04Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > On the other hand there is a HUGE difference between say a kid with autism who has the splinter skills to be able to read and write or a kid with CP who can communicate via eyegaze etc vs. the type of kid who has a profound brain issue that no matter WHAT the kid is given, will always be at the mental level of an infant…and some even WORSE!!! . Ever interacted with a kid with significant holoproscencephly? What about lissencephaly? What about hydrancenphaly? They have profound brain issues that cannot rewire themselves…Granted the percentage of kids who have extreme profound issues is really rare…but still… Again, nobody here is arguing that brain dead kids should be in school. Nobody. And in the real world, few are. Your problem is that you won’t admit that you don’t know enough about a kid to know if he can learn or not, and you want to be able to declare it just by looking at him, or at his medical chart. You can’t do that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-kids-who-absolutly-cannot-be-educated/647494.md?page=5)