# Are there many jurisdictions where trying to cause harm by supernatural means is a crime?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [October 18, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974 "2015-10-18T02:18:19Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/1 "2015-10-18T02:18:19Z")

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Question inspired by the [water pistol attempted murder](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=772207) question currently in GQ. But let’s chuck out the water pistol and bring in the supernatural - prayers to the Almighty, beseeching Beelzebub and his imps, or Voodoo, or black magic, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Let’s say you don’t like a person, and use the supernatural as a means to try and do them in. They then kick the bucket - if the authorities find out what you’ve been up to, how much trouble are you in legally? JFGI reveals that South Africa (!) still has [Witchcraft acts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Suppression_Act,_1957) on the books, which makes it a crime to;  
_“Imputing to any other person the causing, by supernatural means, of any disease in or injury or damage to any person or thing, or naming or indicating any other person as a wizard.[4]”_

What the serious fuck. But what about the U.S., if you got up to these sorts of shenanigans (assuming you only used supernatural means and didn’t _actually_ murder someone)? Would it depend entirely on how your would-be victim met his end?

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**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/2 "2015-10-18T03:10:55Z")

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> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#):
>
> Let’s say you don’t like a person, and use the supernatural as a means to try and do them in. They then kick the bucket - if the authorities find out what you’ve been up to, how much trouble are you in legally? JFGI reveals that South Africa (!) still has [Witchcraft acts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Suppression_Act,_1957) on the books, which makes it a crime to;  
> _“Imputing to any other person the causing, by supernatural means, of any disease in or injury or damage to any person or thing, or naming or indicating any other person as a wizard.[4]”_

The crime there is claiming someone is a witch/wizard and is causing injury, not being a witch.  
Trying to cause harm, depending on what exactly is being done may well be a crime. Many “witches” have used purportedly supernatural, but actually more mundane, methods to cause harm to targets, like secretly administrating substances. Administrating a noxious substance is a crime. I recall another case where a “witch” targeted a clients love rival, by giving her an amulet to wear, which caused her to become ill, said amulet contained radioactive material; crime.

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**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/3 "2015-10-18T03:14:04Z")

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“Imputing to any other person” in this case basically comes down to making threats. It isn’t so much a law against the practice of witchcraft, or wizardry, but simply claiming to.

You can stick pins into your wax doll as much as you like, but you can’ tell the person whose effigy it is that you are doing so.

Maybe summoning Beelzebub is protected speech?

Sadly there tend not to be many places with laws against being a jerk.

ETA - It would not surprise me that such things are covered by Sharia Law. Maybe **AK84** can comment?

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**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/4 "2015-10-18T03:16:50Z")

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Beetlejuice  
Beetlejuice

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**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/5 "2015-10-18T03:33:34Z")

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> [@Rhythmdvl](#):
>
> Beetlejuice  
> Beetlejuice

Beetlejuice

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**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/6 "2015-10-18T03:49:32Z")

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I’m trying to think of a situation in which this principle might be applicable. Say the police arrive at a house with a warrant, and someone holds up an amulet of some kind and says he is placing a hex on the police, but does not interfere with them in any other way. The police arrest the subject, on a charge associated with threatening an officer, or otherwise impeding execution of the warrant. To arrest or even detain the subject would require that such a hex be held to be reasonable suspicion that a threat to the police was genuine.

Similarly, a defendant in a criminal trial says that he is putting a hex on the judge. For the judge to hold him in contempt or in any other way reprimand him, would imply that the judge recognized such a hex as an instrument of harm, which would be an interesting judicial burden.

If a group of people congregated in a public place for the purpose of putting a hex on the President of the United States, would the Secret Service have to show that that constituted a real and present danger to the president, in order to take any action in violation of the constitutional freedom to assemble, or to detain any of those present?

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**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/7 "2015-10-18T04:22:34Z")

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this isn’t quite what the OP is looking for, but it’s related:  
In China, it is [illegal for a Bhuddist to be reincarnated without government permision](http://www.qando.net/2012/03/01/china-makes-reincarnation-without-government-permission-illegal/)

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**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/8 "2015-10-18T11:07:46Z")

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Regarding the South African “Witchcraft Suppression Act”: there are still cases in some areas of the country where people are murdered because they are accused of being witches/wizards. [This is the most recent case I could find.](http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/12-arrested-for-burning-witch-alive-20150728) The main purpose of the Act is to criminalise the accusation of witchcraft and the actions of “witch-smellers” or “witch-finders”.

However, it does also make it criminal to claim to be able to bewitch someone, or to sell charms or hexes, or to be able to tell fortunes, and so on. This makes sense to me, really - given that there is a real belief in witchcraft, and that belief leads to murder, it’s not unreasonable to prevent people from encouraging that belief by claiming to have powers themselves. (You’ll note that [the act](http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/acts/1957-003.pdf) uses words like “professes” and “pretended” to disclaim any implication that witchcraft is real.)

It’s quite likely that parts of the act are unconstitutional now in South Africa - it was passed in 1957, long before we had a Bill of Rights. It’s currently being reviewed by the Law Reform Commission. In practice, the only cases I can find in the law reports are for accusations of being a witch/wizard, and mostly for cases where murder was committed as a result.

(I have occasionally felt tempted to file charges against supposed psychics and the like, who technically violate the act when they “for gain pretend to exercise or use any supernatural power”. But it’s not really worth the effort given that a prosecution is extremely unlikely.)

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**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/9 "2015-10-18T11:19:52Z")

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PNG law was repealed about two and half years ago. Using supernatureal means to cause harm to someone is legal now. Still can get you lynched though.

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**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/10 "2015-10-18T11:56:55Z")

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It’s certainly illegal in Cameroon, and witchcraft trials are not uncommon. I think it would be most commonly dealt with by traditional courts.

There is a near universal belief in witchcraft which is closely tied to a belief that there are secret societies which practice human sacrifice. In a place where people often die suddenly, this isn’t as bizarre a belief as it may seem.

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**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/11 "2015-10-18T12:14:15Z")

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> [@even\_sven](#):
>
> In a place where \*\* people often die suddenly\*\*, this isn’t as bizarre a belief as it may seem.

What causes people to die suddenly? Is it more common in Camaroun than in other parts of Africa?

It seems to me that third-world problems would cause death from disease, ,malnourishment, etc …But these things cause slow deaths, not sudden.

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**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/12 "2015-10-18T12:36:04Z")

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What’s the legal situation if I am a clairvoyant and I use my psychic powers to accurately predict prices on the stock market. Would I be charged with insider trading?

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**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/13 "2015-10-18T12:43:05Z")

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> [@chappachula](#):
>
> What causes people to die suddenly? Is it more common in Camaroun than in other parts of Africa?
> 
> It seems to me that third-world problems would cause death from disease, ,malnourishment, etc …But these things cause slow deaths, not sudden.

Heart attacks, ischemias, crib death… happen in Cameroon as well, but I expect it’s not a location where “sudden death with no previously known condition” automatically leads to an autopsy.

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**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/14 "2015-10-18T13:27:51Z")

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The Cayman Islands still has the[crime of Practicing Obeah](http://www.compasscayman.com/caycompass/2005/12/19/Obeah-charge-not-proven-in-court/) on the books. Last trial I can find was from an arrest made in 2004.

> [@](#):
>
> **Obeah defined**
> 
> According to the Penal Code, a person practising or dealing in obeah means a person who, to effect any fraudulent or unlawful purpose, or for gain, or for the purpose of frightening any person, uses or pretends to use occult means, or pretends to possess any supernatural power or knowledge.
> 
> Another part of the same section states that whoever is found in possession of any instrument of obeah shall be deemed, unless the contrary is proved, to be a person practising obeah at the time of such possession.

In this trial a man was out after curfew. (The curfew had been imposed for a few weeks after a devastating Cat 5 hurricane.) He was arrested for curfew violation. Upon searching his possessions for inventory purposes certain items were found which led ultimately to a charge of practicing obeah. The man was found not guilty.

More recently a [news report](http://www.compasscayman.com/caycompass/2015/02/18/Banned-books,-libel,-voodoo-remain-criminal/) in February of 2015 noted that certain books are still banned in Cayman, including those on obeah and the magical arts.

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**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/15 "2015-10-18T14:30:07Z")

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Steel is profoundly unnatural … and compared to all the naturally occurring substances, clearly steel’s strength is supernatural … very few crimes can be committed without steel’s use in some way.

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**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/16 "2015-10-18T15:29:11Z")

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> [@chappachula](#):
>
> What causes people to die suddenly? Is it more common in Camaroun than in other parts of Africa?
> 
> It seems to me that third-world problems would cause death from disease, ,malnourishment, etc …But these things cause slow deaths, not sudden.

Counterfeit medicine, cerebral malaria, pesticide accidents, meningitis, dehydration from diarrheal diseases, infected wounds, undetected underlying heart conditions, botched abortions, cassava where the cyanide isn’t properly leeched out, etc. It’s not all that uncommon to see someone socially one day, and attend their funeral the next.

It’s not always stuff that’s unexplained-- car accidents are a major killer. But the overwhelming presence of death is hard to process rationally, and this is a place where traditional religious beliefs exist side by side with Christianity and Islam, and where 20% of people solely practice traditional religions.

It also doesn’t help that it’s clear that some ethnic groups/regions suffer more than others. An elaborate set of beliefs about witchcraft has developed in part as a way to explain wealth disparities in the country- and sometimes the elites encourage this worldview, as it’s better to be known as a powerful sorcerer than a standard kleptocrat.

There are nationally held notions about what ethnic groups engage in what type of witchcraft. For example, the Bamilike- a prosperous group known for their business acumen and subject to many of the same stereotypes as Jews are here- are well know to enslave people’s souls while the sleep to go work farms on Mount Kupe.

The victim becomes tired and listless (from working all night instead of sleeping), and the Bamilike becomes rich selling the crops. In a place where information is hard to come by, this seems to be a neat explanation of why so many suffer chronic exhaustion while the Bamilike seem to prosper.

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**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/17 "2015-10-18T22:24:29Z")

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Cheers for the replies.

> [@AK84](#):
>
> The crime there is claiming someone is a witch/wizard and is causing injury, not being a witch.

Quoted the wrong bit, oops, meant to quote this bit which is more in line with what I was thinking;  
_On the advice of any witchdoctor, witch-finder or other person or on the ground of any pretended knowledge of witchcraft, using or causing to be put into operation any means or process which, in accordance with such advice or the accused’s own belief, is calculated to injure or damage any person or thing.[11]_

> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> Steel is profoundly unnatural … and compared to all the naturally occurring substances, clearly steel’s strength is supernatural … very few crimes can be committed without steel’s use in some way.

Err…what? Artificial and supernatural aren’t synonyms.

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**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/18 "2015-10-18T22:56:48Z")

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> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#):
>
> Err…what? Artificial and supernatural aren’t synonyms.

I think you mean unnatural and supernatural aren’t synonyms … but point taken …

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**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/19 "2015-10-18T22:59:20Z")

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Not in Massachusetts-Gov. Dukakis repealed the witchcraft laws over 40 years ago. Feel free to cast any spells you wish.

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**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-many-jurisdictions-where-trying-to-cause-harm-by-supernatural-means-is-a-crime/734974/20 "2015-10-18T23:36:32Z")

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> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#):
>
> Question inspired by the [water pistol attempted murder](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=772207) question currently in GQ. But let’s chuck out the water pistol and bring in the supernatural - prayers to the Almighty, beseeching Beelzebub and his imps, or Voodoo, or black magic, you know, all that kind of stuff.
> 
> Let’s say you don’t like a person, and use the supernatural as a means to try and do them in. They then kick the bucket - if the authorities find out what you’ve been up to, how much trouble are you in legally? JFGI reveals that South Africa (!) still has [Witchcraft acts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Suppression_Act,_1957) on the books, which makes it a crime to;  
> _“Imputing to any other person the causing, by supernatural means, of any disease in or injury or damage to any person or thing, or naming or indicating any other person as a wizard.[4]”_
> 
> What the serious fuck. But what about the U.S., if you got up to these sorts of shenanigans (assuming you only used supernatural means and didn’t _actually_ murder someone)? Would it depend entirely on how your would-be victim met his end?

Not to forget that in as much as a legal system includes a religious basis or morality then it has incorporated magic. People still swear oaths on bibles in court. Weird isn’t it ?  
I mean, you got to court supposedly to establish the facts about something, yet your integrity is supposedly based on swearing to something whose factual existence is… _somewhat disputed_.

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