# Are there modern nations which are basically just a city state **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 4, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019 "2016-09-04T14:41:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/1 "2016-09-04T14:41:16Z")
Meaning, are there nations that are basically just one large city where many/most of the people live? Example, in the US the metro area for NYC is about 20 million. Of the US population of 320 million that is about 6% of the country living in the metro area of NYC. However the population of England is 53 million, the metro population of London is 14 million. So 26% of the entire population of England lives in the metro population of London. About half the population of South Korea lives in the metro area of Seoul. Other than vatican city, are there countries that are basically one giant city and a bunch of minor, largely irrelevant small towns where the majority of the people basically live in or near the one large city? I don’t know if Hong Kong or Singapore would count, since the national borders are the city borders in those places aren’t they? I’m more asking for a country that maybe is 1 million square miles, and the metro area for the large city is 100,000 square miles. Most people live there, the other 900,000 square miles are mostly empty. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/2 "2016-09-04T14:42:04Z")
Singapore is the usual example. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/3 "2016-09-04T14:51:01Z")
Monaco and San Marino are two others. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/4 "2016-09-04T15:30:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … I’m more asking for a country that maybe is 1 million square miles, and the metro area for the large city is 100,000 square miles. Most people live there, the other 900,000 square miles are mostly empty. A million square miles is quite a large country – it’s roughly the size of Argentina or Algeria. And no city is 100,000 square miles: the largest city (by area) that I’m aware of is [Mount Isa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Mount_Isa), which is about 17,000 square miles (with a population density of 1.3 per square mile – it’s mostly empty semi-arid land), ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/5 "2016-09-04T15:37:12Z")
It’s not a country, but Western Australia comes close to the OP’s question otherwise. Its area is roughly 1,000,000 square miles, and 80% of the population is in the capital Perth. I don’t think that anyone would describe it as a “city state”, however, even if it is a state. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/6 "2016-09-04T15:39:33Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Monaco and San Marino are two others. Prince Rainier reportedly once visited the Astrodome. When a guide asked him some typically boosterish question about “wouldn’t he like to have one of these back home,” he replied, “Wonderful! I’d be the monarch of the world’s only indoor country!” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/7 "2016-09-04T15:39:44Z")
I don’t know if any of these countries meet your size criteria but see: > **[What cities represent the largest percentage of their country's population?](https://www.quora.com/What-cities-represent-the-largest-percentage-of-their-countrys-population)** > > Answer (1 of 4): In addition to micronations and city-states, Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) Oslo (Norway), Copenhagen (Denmark), Santiago (Chile), Lima (Peru), Vienna (Austria), Buenos Aires (Argentina), Tripoli (Libya) and Athens (Greece) all... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/8 "2016-09-04T15:52:05Z")
Mexico is surprisingly close. Over one sixth of all of Mexico’s population live in Greater Mexico City. (New York City would have to triple its population to have an equivalent percentage in the United States.) ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/9 "2016-09-04T16:20:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Mexico is surprisingly close. Over one sixth of all of Mexico’s population live in Greater Mexico City. Australia is closer than that, except that it has two cities each with about one fifth of the national population. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/10 "2016-09-04T16:40:35Z")
Here’s the World Bank’s [data](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.URB.LCTY.UR.ZS) for % of population in the largest city. Various restrictions apply, however. Someone asked this on Quora and got some nice [answers](https://www.quora.com/What-cities-represent-the-largest-percentage-of-their-countrys-population). Qatar, Djibouti, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/11 "2016-09-04T17:17:00Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Here’s the World Bank’s [data](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.URB.LCTY.UR.ZS) for % of population in the largest city. Various restrictions apply, however. From that list, of the countries with a substantial area, Mongolia is the closest to a one-city state. Its area is about 600,000 square miles, its population is about 3,000,000, of which about 1,300,000 (43%) live in Ulaanbaatar. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/12 "2016-09-04T18:09:35Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Australia is closer than that, except that it has two cities each with about one fifth of the national population. Auckland has 32% of New Zealand’s population, at least according to [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland). ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/13 "2016-09-04T18:12:34Z")
Qatar, Kuwait and to a lesser extent, Bahrain all qualify I think. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/14 "2016-09-04T18:18:28Z")
Afghanistan. I say that because the President is often jokingly referred to as the “Mayor of Kabul.” You travel to somewhere like Kandahar and you might as well be on another planet. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/15 "2016-09-04T22:31:40Z")
I believe the term you’re looking for is [primate city,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_primate_cities) defined by Wikipedia as _“a major city that works as the financial, political, and population center of a country and is not rivaled in any of these aspects by any other city in that country. Normally, a primate city must be at least twice as populous as the second largest city in the country.”_ Examples around the world include the United Kingdom (London), France (Paris), Austria (Viennna), Ireland (Dublin), Mexico (Mexico City), Argentina (Buenos Aires), Chile (Santiago), Japan (Tokyo), South Korea (Seoul), Mongolia (Ulaanbaatar), and nearly every country in Africa. Of particular note is Bangkok, which has been called “the most primate city on earth”, being 40x larger than Thailand’s second city. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/16 "2016-09-04T22:57:09Z")
kuwait city. I recall during the Gulf War that pretty much all that country’s people lived there. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/17 "2016-09-04T23:27:16Z")
Roughly half of Oregon’s population lives in Greater Metropolitan Portland. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/18 "2016-09-05T00:51:20Z")
If we include sub-national entities, there are an awful lot of provinces, states, etc that have one dominant city… Toronto has around half of Ontario’s population, and New York City dominates New York State. (I’m not sure what New York’s second-largest city is: Buffalo?) California might be unusual in that it has two widely-spaced large cities. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/19 "2016-09-05T01:35:17Z")
I was going to say Singapore, but then I saw this > [@](#): > > I don’t know if Hong Kong or Singapore would count, since the national borders are the city borders in those places aren’t they? I’m more asking for a country that maybe is 1 million square miles, and the metro area for the large city is 100,000 square miles. Most people live there, the other 900,000 square miles are mostly empty. What do you mean by “city borders” and “national borders”? Are you envisioning separate authorities for each? Because most city-states don’t bother with “city borders”, or even have any meaningful separation between governance of the city and governance of the state, given that they are practically the same thing. If you really wanted to be picky about it, even Singapore is divided into constituencies which are self-governing in that sense - headed by an elected member of parliament, provision of services like refuse collection etc. Perhaps the equivalent of a borough? So I don’t exactly know what you’re going for, but I don’t think you’re likely to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019/20 "2016-09-05T22:43:39Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > I was going to say Singapore, but then I saw this > > What do you mean by “city borders” and “national borders”? Are you envisioning separate authorities for each? Because most city-states don’t bother with “city borders”, or even have any meaningful separation between governance of the city and governance of the state, given that they are practically the same thing. > > If you really wanted to be picky about it, even Singapore is divided into constituencies which are self-governing in that sense - headed by an elected member of parliament, provision of services like refuse collection etc. Perhaps the equivalent of a borough? > > So I don’t exactly know what you’re going for, but I don’t think you’re likely to get it. What I mean is you have an entire nation, and a small % of the land mass of the nation is one city, but that one city has the majority of the country. The example I posed in my OP was South Korea. South Korea has 50 million people, but the metro area for Seoul is 24 million. So about half the nation lives in the metro area of the capital city. The metro area of Seoul is about 10-12% of the entire countries landmass. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-modern-nations-which-are-basically-just-a-city-state/765019.md?page=2)