# Are there more Atheists in prison than religious folks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714 "2011-06-16T17:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/21 "2011-06-16T21:12:05Z")
Being an self-admitted atheist in the US is a sign of, at least, a contrary character. You might as well consider the [crime statistics](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita) of generally atheist countries with the US. The US scores pretty well on total crime rates, but the netherlands is almost equally good. When looking at [homicide with firearms,](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita) religious US is ranking 8 and atheistic netherlands doesn’t even list in the ranking after no 32. So, I guess religion is NOT a factor. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Ayebaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darth_ayebaw/32/9870_2.png) [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/22 "2011-06-16T21:15:59Z")
Funny thing that. Atheists are far, far less likely to go to prison than a Christian. Jews are in between but closer to atheists. Wonder why. Source being The New Criminology. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/23 "2011-06-16T21:53:51Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > When looking at [homicide with firearms,](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita) religious US is ranking 8 and atheistic netherlands doesn’t even list in the ranking after no 32. Are guns as plentiful in the Netherlands though ? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/24 "2011-06-16T22:43:06Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Being an self-admitted atheist in the US is a sign of, at least, a contrary character. > > You might as well consider the [crime statistics](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita) of generally atheist countries with the US. > The US scores pretty well on total crime rates, but the netherlands is almost equally good. > So, I guess religion is NOT a factor. Those figures look awfully rubbery? NZ has its issues, but I wouldnt consider it one of the most lawless places in the world. I suspect this is more about countries which are best at collecting actual crime rates, or that issue is at least conflating the data a bit. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/25 "2011-06-16T23:07:02Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > Those figures look awfully rubbery? Read the note at the bottom of the list: > [@](#): > > **DEFINITION:** [Note](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_not): [Crime](http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Crime) statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report [crime](http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Crime), than actual prevalence. (also, “Crime” is a wide net, I think. Are NZ cops heavy-handed on jaywalking ? ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/26 "2011-06-16T23:13:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > (also, “Crime” is a wide net, I think. Are NZ cops heavy-handed on jaywalking ? ;)) I’d like to see a superhero crime fighter who focuses on white-collar crime. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/27 "2011-06-16T23:30:02Z")
OK I should have read down, but that means the title of the graph is rather misleading. Give NZ is one of the more atheist/agnostic countries in the world then, that makes more sense. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/28 "2011-06-17T02:34:27Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Are there more Atheists in prison than religious folks? I’d wager **less**. After all, it’s convention that religion preys specifically on the minds of the weak and vulnerable; children, the disenfranchised, the incarcerated… So logic would dictate – ironically, given religion being the subject matter – that those in an introspective-cum-hopeless situation, as is oftentimes the case with incarceration (especially relating to serious crime), would turn to The Flying Spaghetti Monster to ‘bail them out’ with some fanciful promise of a grape-feeding love-in in the sky, if only they ‘repent’. ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/29 "2011-06-17T02:48:54Z")
Even being in prison doesn’t mean one is necessarily there for a violent or otherwise particularly heinous crime. If the results are looking at the total prison population, not the ones convicted of a specific offense of class of offenses, there may be a problem. Besides, in a vastly religious country, it’s possible a known atheist might be discriminated against, including by police. I remember some Youtube clip from a documentary titled “the price of atheism” or something along those lines getting me pretty outraged. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/30 "2011-06-17T10:31:43Z")
I wouldn’t think it _that_ odd if a large % of the incarcerated were atheist. Not if you consider that most of those in prison have been “outside the flock’s influence” for some time already. Most would have had quite a few life experiences that would make them doubt the “God Loves You” story. What one should be careful of, of course, is the heavily implied switch; A high % of criminals doesn’t believe in God = Atheists have a high % of criminals in their ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/31 "2011-06-17T10:35:43Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I wouldn’t think it _that_ odd if a large % of the incarcerated were atheist. > Not if you consider that most of those in prison have been “outside the flock’s influence” for some time already. > Most would have had quite a few life experiences that would make them doubt the “God Loves You” story. What makes you think the “God Loves You story” is incompatible with being a criminal? On the contrary, it serves as a great excuse; God loves _you_, but those guys over _there_ are fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/32 "2011-06-17T12:12:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you think the “God Loves You story” is incompatible with being a criminal? On the contrary, it serves as a great excuse; God loves _you_, but those guys over _there_ are fair game. I’m not saying it’s incompatible. Obviously it is compatible . For about 2000 years practically all criminals would have been religious, as not believing in God was simply not an option. Nowadays it _is_ a box you can tick and I think that far more criminals will tick that box where in days past they would, as you say enter into a sort of private relationship with God. or however else they would ignore their ‘sins’, or live with them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/33 "2011-06-17T12:23:48Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I’m not saying it’s incompatible. > Obviously it is compatible . For about 2000 years practically all criminals would have been religious, as not believing in God was simply not an option. > > Nowadays it _is_ a box you can tick and I think that far more criminals will tick that box where in days past they would, as you say enter into a sort of private relationship with God. or however else they would ignore their ‘sins’, or live with them. So you are saying that they are not _true_ Christians? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/34 "2011-06-17T12:58:33Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Some numbers here: [UFABET ทางเข้า เว็บพนัน ยูฟ่าเบท NO. 1 ของประเทศไทย](http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html) > > Seems to support the idea that most prison inmates identify with a religion. Which is what you would expect in a country with such a large religious population. > > Also supports the notion that most criminals were not religiously active upon incarceration, which is not particularly surprising either. That is an interesting essay. I would still like to know the effect that regular church attendance has on criminal behavior, especially among high crime populations. Lower income, inner city neighborhoods seem to have lots of churches, but most of those attend seem to be female. Lower income minority males from the age of fifteen to thirty are most likely to be guilty of crimes, especially violent crimes. Such a male who already has a felony conviction may have started going to church in order to please a parole officer, or in a genuine effort to reform. In order to evaluate the effect regular church attendance has on criminal behavior it would be necessary to compare the church attendance of those who have recently been arrested with comparable populations who have not been arrested. My guess is that regular church attendance does reduce criminal behavior significantly, but I would like to know by what percentage it does so. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/35 "2011-06-17T12:58:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you are saying that they are not _true_ Christians? What do you mean? I bet a lot of criminals will have been terrified once their deaths approached, because they did indeed believe their afterlife punishment would be terrible. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/36 "2011-06-17T13:07:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you are saying that they are not _true_ Christians? There are very few members of the Church of Scotland in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/37 "2011-06-17T13:18:18Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > There are very few members of the Church of Scotland in prison. No, they serve in the army…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/38 "2011-06-17T13:43:50Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’d like to see a superhero crime fighter who focuses on white-collar crime. I think Silver Age Superman did a fair bit of that. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/39 "2011-06-17T13:46:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Something like 80 to 90 percent of people in the U.S. identify with a religion, and **Jas09** ’s cite says the figure is more than 90 percent. If there were numerically more atheists than theists in prison, that would be a shockingly large imbalance. Exactly, and that leads me to wonder if the question the original poster is asking is really “is there a higher proportion of atheists in the prison community than the general population?” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714/40 "2011-06-17T14:35:59Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Not if you consider that most of those in prison have been “outside the flock’s influence” for some time already. Being “outside the flock”, especially in the United States right now, doesn’t really imply anything about one’s perceived religious affiliation. I would guess that at least a third of my acquaintances could have both of the following statements truthfully made about them: 1. They consider themselves Christian. 2. They have not been in a church building for a regular weekly service in a decade or more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-more-atheists-in-prison-than-religious-folks/585714.md?page=3)