# Are there Natural Rights? If so, what are they? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601 "2013-02-07T16:22:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/1 "2013-02-07T16:22:31Z")
The term “Natural Rights” comes up in these threads occasionally, and recently a poster asserted that the right to Free Speech was a natural right that could be infringed upon but not taken away. What part of nature bestows rights, and do animals have these same rights seeing as how they are just as natural as we are? Is there a list of “Natural Rights” that those who follow this philosophy agree on? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/2 "2013-02-07T16:28:08Z")
There is certainly a great body of work concerning [Natural Rights.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights) It’s a legitimate point of view, even if I disagree with it. As I’ve stated many times, my view is that “rights” are social constructs, and exist only in so much as we, the people, carve them out for ourselves as something our government may not infringe upon. Those of us who do not believe in some sort of Supreme Being are generally going to reject the idea of “natural rights”. However, we can study _H. sapiens_, as a social animal, and understand what circumstances make for a thriving species. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/3 "2013-02-07T16:35:46Z")
In the broadest sense, I posit that all adult humans (with the possible exception of special cases like the mentally ill or developmentally disabled) have a natural right to do anything that doesn’t harm someone else. This is [Natural-rights, or deontological, libertarianism.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarianism) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/4 "2013-02-07T16:37:50Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In the broadest sense, I posit that all adult humans (with the possible exception of special cases like the mentally ill or developmentally disabled) have a natural right to do anything that doesn’t harm someone else. This is [Natural-rights, or deontological, libertarianism.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarianism) Do I have the right to restrict your movements if I can do so without bringing harm to you? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/5 "2013-02-07T16:41:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do I have the right to restrict your movements if I can do so without bringing harm to you? You’d have to be more specific. Living in a society means accepting a certain amount of infringement upon your natural rights, of course, and so long as the infringement comes from a democratic process, and is the absolute minimum required for society to function, it should be accepted, while still being recognized as infringement. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/6 "2013-02-07T16:43:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As I’ve stated many times, my view is that “rights” are social constructs, and exist only in so much as we, the people, carve them out for ourselves as something our government may not infringe upon. This is the practical effect, yes, it’s up to all of us to safeguard one another’s rights. > [@John Mace](#): > > Those of us who do not believe in some sort of Supreme Being are generally going to reject the idea of “natural rights”. However, we can study _H. sapiens_, as a social animal, and understand what circumstances make for a thriving species. Though not necessarily, I’m an atheist and an ardent supporter of the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/7 "2013-02-07T16:51:35Z")
If one person’s natural right directly conflicts with another person’s natural right, which one is naturally “righter”? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/8 "2013-02-07T16:53:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If one person’s natural right directly conflicts with another person’s natural right, which one is naturally “righter”? Mine. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/9 "2013-02-07T16:55:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If one person’s natural right directly conflicts with another person’s natural right, which one is naturally “righter”? Well, your rights do not include the initiation of force, fraud, or other harm to others. So if that’s the case, the one initiating force is wrong and their behavior isn’t part of their rights. What other conflicts of rights did you have in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/10 "2013-02-07T16:57:19Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Mine. Naturally. 😃 Seriously, though-is there a list of Natural Rights that are agreed upon? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/11 "2013-02-07T17:03:27Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Well, your rights do not include the initiation of force, fraud, or other harm to others. So if that’s the case, the one initiating force is wrong and their behavior isn’t part of their rights. > > What other conflicts of rights did you have in mind? Does your Natural Right of Free Speech trump my right to enjoy a night out at the movies? ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/12 "2013-02-07T17:06:14Z")
Before you can meaningfully talk about whether rights exist, you have to first figure out what they _are_. [This](http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html#rights_and_heuristics) is the best analysis of the nature of rights that I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/13 "2013-02-07T17:12:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Seriously, though-is there a list of Natural Rights that are agreed upon? No, there is no list which is embraced by all. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does your Natural Right of Free Speech trump my right to enjoy a night out at the movies? Are you asking me if it’s acceptable to make it illegal to talk in a movie theater? I’m not following you here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/14 "2013-02-07T17:17:23Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Are you asking me if it’s acceptable to make it illegal to talk in a movie theater? I’m not following you here. I didn’t bring up making anything illegal. Do you have the Natural Right to continue speaking at a normal(or even louder) tone throughout the movie and infringe upon my right to enjoy said movie? Do I even _have_ a Natural Right to enjoy the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/15 "2013-02-07T17:20:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I didn’t bring up making anything illegal. Do you have the Natural Right to continue speaking at a normal(or even louder) tone throughout the movie and infringe upon my right to enjoy said movie? Yes, you do. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do I even _have_ a Natural Right to enjoy the movie? No, you don’t have a right to enjoy a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/16 "2013-02-07T17:37:55Z")
How do you determine what is or isn’t a right? Intuition isn’t sufficient. Different people have different intuitions. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/17 "2013-02-07T17:51:06Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > How do you determine what is or isn’t a right? Intuition isn’t sufficient. Different people have different intuitions. In my view, all rights flow from individual sovereignty: I own myself, you own yourself. Any concept of rights involves intuition and reasoning, whether you believe they are granted by a legal system or are innate, you must decide what they are and articulate them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/18 "2013-02-07T18:06:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If one person’s natural right directly conflicts with another person’s natural right, which one is naturally “righter”? Then the “natural” thing to do is fight. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/19 "2013-02-07T18:09:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In my view, all rights flow from individual sovereignty: I own myself, you own yourself. > > Any concept of rights involves intuition and reasoning, whether you believe they are granted by a legal system or are innate, you must decide what they are and articulate them. So they aren’t “Natural” rights so much as rights we assign ourselves? I think there’s another term for that, and it isn’t “Natural Rights”. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601/20 "2013-02-07T18:12:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So they aren’t “Natural” rights so much as rights we assign ourselves? I think there’s another term for that, and it isn’t “Natural Rights”. You assign them in that each person decides what constitutes an infringement of rights. They are natural in that they are inherent, as opposed to granted by law. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-natural-rights-if-so-what-are-they/649601.md?page=2)