# Are there other cultures that don't get hung up on punctuality for work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146 "2008-01-03T17:51:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/21 "2008-01-03T19:05:28Z")
Probably much of the world outside of the (Western?) European-zone and Japan. For an almost elegaic look at “African time,” for instance: > **[NexlanceNow: Fully Funded International Scholarships](https://nexlancenow.com)** > > NexlanceNow is keen on providing quality information about latest scholarship updates for international students as well as fully funded programs. The Ivory Coasters are a bit less sanguine: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/09/wpunctual109.xml](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/09/wpunctual109.xml) ---
**Author:** ![masterofnone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@masterofnone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/masterofnone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/22 "2008-01-03T19:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=gazpacho] VCO3 get thee back to school and get a professional technical job. [/QUOTE] Definitely. I’m a lab rat of sorts in an academic setting (can’t be more specific, due to the fact that I have a rather unusual title + would like to remain annonymous). Official hours: 8:15-5:00 I never arrive before 9:30. I ocasionally work nights + weekends. I’m autonomous and always get my job done and then some, so no one bothers me about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/23 "2008-01-03T19:07:40Z")
Depends. If your work allows a certain flexibility, and nobody really needs you there, they just need you to get your work done within a certain time frame, then punctuality is not important. In the summer, when I’m writing research articles, all that matters is I get enough work done each day; it doesn’t matter when I do it. But if your unpunctuality forces other people to wait around for you, then you are saying their time isn’t worth much. I have had friends like this before. I got to the point where if we had made arrangements (i.e., to go to a movie), and they didn’t show up on time, I left without them. It’s assholish behavior on their part. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/24 "2008-01-03T19:10:41Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Rosewater] I believe you are looking for the word “gamut” [/QUOTE] :smack: :smack: I quit. No more posting today. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/25 "2008-01-03T19:11:09Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Yes. I’ve alternately heard it referred to as “Filipino Time”, “Congo Time”, “Balinese Time”, “Italian Time” or “Native Time” - each by people of the correlating ancestry. I believe it’s actually quite common in other places - by other, I mean, not the US, Canada, the UK or parts of Europe. [/QUOTE] I’m a big fan of “Island Time” when I go to Hawaii. I finally now have a job where I don’t have to punch a clock, yet I’m most often the first one in in the morning. I do have to keep tight time during shows, though (I’m a producer at live events). My wife has a desk job but still has to punch a clock, but due to a bizarre time-rounding policy she has seven minutes of leeway from the expected time. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/26 "2008-01-03T19:13:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Rosewater] I believe you are looking for the word “gamut” [/QUOTE] I do too. “Gauntlet” seems to be a hopelessly mixed metaphor. (or simile I can never tell…) ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/27 "2008-01-03T19:18:27Z")
[QUOTE=Commonsense] [splutter] Exactly. Chronic lateness is selfishness. It’s a way of telling everyone else to F off, that their time is not important. At the end of the day if you can manage to tell others you are chronically late, then you obviously know what “being on time” means. Therefore, for whatever reason, you have chosen to not be on time. [/QUOTE] Of course it is selfish, but so is not taking a bullet for your boss if the situation arose…and it’s only “telling everyone else to F off, that their time is not important” if your lateness actually affects them, apart from them just being annoyed that you are late. I had a job once where everything was running smoothly and efficiently, until a new manager came in, and decided a military approach to time would somehow improve productivity. After I got a warning, I made sure to be on time (and improved my sneaking in unnoticed skills), because I couldn’t afford to be fired. The 3 best salesmen did not. They were fired, because they were chronicly 5 minutes late. They were great employees, and people. Their replacements were punctual, but ineffective. We went from the best to the worst performing division, and were all eventually terminated, including the manager, who claimed no regrets because his “principles were correct”. I despise this “principle” approach, even though it’s considered by many the admirable, honorable way to do things. Thats probably why I freelance now. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/28 "2008-01-03T19:18:53Z")
I work in an office where we keep track of our time down to the 15 minute mark. We bill clients that way, and most of our day is spent on work for the clients. Granted, unless you have prior appointments, it doesn’t matter if you come in 15 minutes late and then stay an extra 15 at the end of the day, but during the day we have to be very conscientious about the time we spend. I wonder how those people that cannot understand time would do? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/29 "2008-01-03T19:21:23Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] I could try to dig up some older threads but it might be hard. Yep, some people claimed that not only did they not understand time but, more importantly, why anyone would care if they meet someone in a restaurant an hour late or more. Those threads were disturbing in their sincerity. [/QUOTE] Try this one: [Is punctuality a choice?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=406731) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/30 "2008-01-03T19:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] I’m a big fan of “Island Time” when I go to Hawaii. [/QUOTE] Those of us on the mainland who have to deal with Hawaiian operations are not such big fans. Even the _banks_ are infected. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/31 "2008-01-03T19:26:34Z")
[QUOTE=Commonsense] We seem to be concentrating on the job situation. I don’t work for a living, but I’m still in situations where I need to be on time - appointments, social engagements, and so on. [/QUOTE] For someone who doesn’t work for a living, you have an astonishingly developed sense of what it means not to be on time for work. For the vast majority of white collar workers, their colleagues are not dependent on their being present at some arbitrarily chosen spot-on-the-dot. So the notion that you are being “selfish” or telling everyone to “F off” is a message you’re reading into it, not from any practical outcome of not being spot on time. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/32 "2008-01-03T19:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Yes. I’ve alternately heard it referred to as “Filipino Time”, “Congo Time”, “Balinese Time”, “Italian Time” or “Native Time” - each by people of the correlating ancestry. I believe it’s actually quite common in other places - by other, I mean, not the US, Canada, the UK or parts of Europe. [/QUOTE] Please tell me that everyone here is being either very obtuse or I am being whooshed big-time. What our illustrious OP is referring to is commonly called Colored People’s Time or CPT. He is alluding (again) to stereotypes about African Americans, in this case that they are notoriously lazy and run on their own schedule. Once again, he gives a glimpse of the white hood he wears. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/33 "2008-01-03T19:57:50Z")
Point: **From a purely practical POV, it doesn’t matter.** > [@acsenray](#): > > For the vast majority of white collar workers, their colleagues are not dependent on their being present at some arbitrarily chosen spot-on-the-dot. So the notion that you are being “selfish” or telling everyone to “F off” is a message you’re reading into it, not from any practical outcome of not being spot on time. Counterpoint: **From a command and control POV, it sure as hell _does_ matter.** > [@askeptic](#): > > If I was paying someone to do something from 9 to 5 and they showed up at 9:05 more than a couple of times I would fire their ass. I am paying, it is not their prerogative to decide whether it is important to be there on time or not. […] If you can’t be there when I tell you to be there, how can I know you are doing the other things I am paying you to do? Part of the deal with working in _any_ office is that someone has to be boss, and that boss is allowed to make demands on his employees _over and above_ the purely practical, in the name of abstract goods like cohesion, discipline, and authority. The boss also gets to decide what actions are selfish or “f off,” regardless of anyone’s actual intent. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/34 "2008-01-03T20:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] Please tell me that everyone here is being either very obtuse or I am being whooshed big-time. What our illustrious OP is referring to is commonly called Colored People’s Time or CPT. He is alluding (again) to stereotypes about African Americans, in this case that they are notoriously lazy and run on their own schedule. Once again, he gives a glimpse of the white hood he wears. [/QUOTE] Now that you mention it… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/35 "2008-01-03T20:13:02Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] Point: **From a purely practical POV, it doesn’t matter.** Counterpoint: **From a command and control POV, it sure as hell _does_ matter.** Part of the deal with working in _any_ office is that someone has to be boss, and that boss is allowed to make demands on his employees _over and above_ the purely practical, in the name of abstract goods like cohesion, discipline, and authority. The boss also gets to decide what actions are selfish or “f off,” regardless of anyone’s actual intent. [/QUOTE] But your analysis should require the boss making a decision to acknowledge that this is, in fact, an arbitrary matter and not a practical one. For the purposes of most offices, if casual punctuality does not naturally send an “F off” message, it may very well advisable from a cohesion, discipline, or authority matter not to decide that it constitutes an “F off” message by application of authority. Yes, a boss has the authority (generally speaking) to make such arbitrary decisions, but what’s the difference between a good boss and a bad boss? One of the differences is recognizing when not to implement such an arbitrary rule. It’s a decision that should be carefully attuned to the specific circumstances of a specific office. Blithely declaring as a general matter that “X = Y” with no real-life evidence on the table is a recipe for failure. That’s part of what makes **Commonsense** ’s statements surprising. C’sense doesn’t work in an office at all, but is very sure that “X = Y,” and would apparently be willing to enforce a rigid, authoritarian system regardless of what experience in any particular office might offer. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/36 "2008-01-03T20:14:24Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] Please tell me that everyone here is being either very obtuse or I am being whooshed big-time. What our illustrious OP is referring to is commonly called Colored People’s Time or CPT. He is alluding (again) to stereotypes about African Americans, in this case that they are notoriously lazy and run on their own schedule. Once again, he gives a glimpse of the white hood he wears. [/QUOTE] I’ve actually heard “Indian Standard Time” and other terms like it. They are generally used by people who are members of the named ethnic group. I’ve never heard “colored people’s time,” however. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/37 "2008-01-03T20:16:56Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Rosewater] I believe you are looking for the word “gamut” [/QUOTE] Or perhaps Gromit, as in, “Do something, Gromit!” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/38 "2008-01-03T20:18:56Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] Please tell me that everyone here is being either very obtuse or I am being whooshed big-time. What our illustrious OP is referring to is commonly called Colored People’s Time or CPT. He is alluding (again) to stereotypes about African Americans, in this case that they are notoriously lazy and run on their own schedule. Once again, he gives a glimpse of the white hood he wears. [/QUOTE] No, that’s actually the one term I _haven’t_ heard for it. Thanks for sharing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/39 "2008-01-03T20:24:43Z")
I have two coworkers, one who is always five or ten minutes late, and another who is infrequently half an hour to an hour late. Guess which one bothers me? Why you are late is not an issue. How often you are late is. Three times a year, and you don’t even need an excuse. Three times a week, and I don’t care if your aged mother was crawling up the driveway in the ice and snow, trying not to die of hypothermia. Throw the old hag a blanket, and get your ass to work. If you don’t think you are being rude, selfish, and unreliable, then you have even deeper problems than punctuality. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146/40 "2008-01-03T20:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] But your analysis should require the boss making a decision to acknowledge that this is, in fact, an arbitrary matter and not a practical one. [/quote] That’s not going to happen. A good boss wouldn’t go so far as to be so arbitrary, and a bad boss would never acknowledge it. > [@](#): > > Yes, a boss has the authority (generally speaking) to make such arbitrary decisions, but what’s the difference between a good boss and a bad boss? One of the differences is recognizing when not to implement such an arbitrary rule. It’s a decision that should be carefully attuned to the specific circumstances of a specific office. Blithely declaring as a general matter that “X = Y” with no real-life evidence on the table is a recipe for failure. Only as a general rule. There _are_ successful bad bosses, and even those who fail often refuse to learn from it. Unreasonable authority is always going to be with us, because it is so concerned with self-preservation and winning. It cannot always be dealt with or gotten around, except at a very high cost. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-other-cultures-that-dont-get-hung-up-on-punctuality-for-work/432146.md?page=3)