# Are there places where whites are an oppressed minority? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572 "2010-01-26T21:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/1 "2010-01-26T21:25:02Z")
Ok. I don’t want to quibble about “oppressed”. it’s just a catchy word for the title. Are there any countries or significant-sized regions where whites are on the social bottom? Where people of European descent live in relative poverty compared to the non-white population? I don’t want to be more specific since I’m curious about anything that sort of fits this picture. I don’t even require the whites to be a minority. I would be interested in any example of a white society with a ruling non-white minority. ---
**Author:** ![MatthewGerlach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@MatthewGerlach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MatthewGerlach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/2 "2010-01-26T21:37:22Z")
I’d say in Haiti, although I don’t think the white people are at the socio-economic bottom (as most of the black population lives in rural areas and I’m not sure about Port-au- Prince). After they finished obliterating all of the white population in 1804 and killing albinos for witchcraft, I don’t think white people are very inclined to go to Haiti. **No racism intended** ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/3 "2010-01-26T21:40:19Z")
there are many white expats living in Japan and Korea and many of them (Engrish teachers and such) probably are not well-off compared to the locals and are not exactly “celebrated for their diversity” either. However, the big difference between white and Asian nations is that the Asians don’t allow immigration - so these people of the wrong race/ethnicity stay as expats and eventually leave. Meanwhile, many if not most white nations allow large number of permanent immigrants, including from poor non-white countries. I guess our troubles in this regard serve as a fine object lesson to the Asians of what NOT to do. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/4 "2010-01-26T21:42:12Z")
[Recent land reforms in Zimbabwe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people_in_Zimbabwe#The_status_of_white_people) have dispossessed a number of white landowners who used to be part of the white socioeconomic elite, and some of them have become a new “poor white” class with low socioeconomic status. However, the white minority in Zimbabwe still largely constitutes a socioeconomic elite, much of which is quite wealthy, so I don’t think this case really meets your criteria of a society where whites **as a group** are typically oppressed and/or disadvantaged. And AFAIK, no such society exists. There are societies that have white groups in their underclass populations, but AFAICT there’s no society where whites _per se_ constitute an underclass. The reason’s fairly simple, ISTM: for at least the past several hundred years, majority-white societies have typically been comparatively rich with respect to the global average. So when white people in significant numbers moved into majority non-white societies, it was in pursuit of power and profit rather than as poor laborers or refugees or other “underclass material”. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/5 "2010-01-26T21:47:11Z")
Howabout Zimbabwe? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/6 "2010-01-26T21:48:32Z")
Appalachia? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/7 "2010-01-26T21:52:30Z")
Nevermind, saw that it’s already been mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/8 "2010-01-26T22:02:13Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > there are many white expats living in Japan and Korea and many of them (Engrish teachers and such) probably are not well-off compared to the locals and are not exactly “celebrated for their diversity” either. However, the big difference between white and Asian nations is that the Asians don’t allow immigration - so these people of the wrong race/ethnicity stay as expats and eventually leave. Meanwhile, many if not most white nations allow large number of permanent immigrants, including from poor non-white countries. I guess our troubles in this regard serve as a fine object lesson to the Asians of what NOT to do. Aside from the question of permanent residents, of which there are many in Japan, it is certainly possible to become a naturalized Japanese citizen. [Article 5 of the Nationality Law](http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tnl-01.html) (from Japanese Ministry of Justice website): > [@](#): > > The Minister of Justice shall not permit the naturalization of an alien unless he or she fulfills all of the following conditions: > (1) that he or she has domiciled in Japan for five years or more consecutively; > (2) that he or she is twenty years of age or more and of full capacity to act according to the law of his or her home country; > (3) that he or she is of upright conduct; > (4) that he or she is able to secure a livelihood by one’s own property or ability, or those of one’s spouse or other relatives with whom one lives on common living expenses; > (5) that he or she has no nationality, or the acquisition of Japanese nationality will result in the loss of foreign nationality; > (6) that he or she has never plotted or advocated, or formed or belonged to a political party or other organization which has plotted or advocated the overthrow of the Constitution of Japan or the Government existing thereunder, since the enforcement of the Constitution of Japan. > > 1. When an alien is, regardless of his or her intention, unable to deprive himself or herself of his or her current nationality, the Minister of Justice may permit the naturalization of the alien, notwithstanding that the alien does not fulfill the conditions set forth in item (5) of the preceding paragraph, if the Minister of Justice finds exceptional circumstances in his or her family relationship with a Japanese national, or other circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/9 "2010-01-26T22:09:42Z")
If you want to go into the past, you might claim the Balkans under the Ottoman Empire, although that may stretch your definition of “non-white” which is, of course, not well-defined anyway. FWIW, Rob ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/10 "2010-01-26T22:24:05Z")
The success pecking order for immigrants and emigrants is pretty much the same the world over. Leaving aside arguments about what a “race” is, on average (self-described) south and east asians and whites have been substantially more successful than blacks wherever they’ve emigrated, even to places where for various periods of time they’ve been persecuted (much more an asian story there than a white story). Efforts have been made to single out asian immigrants and punish their success (Uganda and Indian immigrants is an example) but on average, over time the success profiles for various groups is about the same across the various nations. Consider, for example, how well the Japanese have done in Brazil even though they were not historically welcomed with open arms. Re Zimbabwe: we’ve discussed Mugabe pulling an Idi Amin elsewhere. The farms that have been taken back have, of course, been a predictable disaster with completely incompetent leadership allowing completely incompetent new owners to completely incompetently try to large-scale farm with completely predictable pitful results. Multiple excuses for why this is so have been made in the thread which discussed it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/11 "2010-01-26T22:24:58Z")
> [@MatthewGerlach](#): > > I’d say in Haiti, although I don’t think the white people are at the socio-economic bottom (as most of the black population lives in rural areas and I’m not sure about Port-au- Prince). After they finished obliterating all of the white population in 1804 and killing albinos for witchcraft, I don’t think white people are very inclined to go to Haiti. Hahahaha. No. Upper-crust Haitians tend to be descended from mulattoes. Some of them look very different from the black majority. I have been surprised by people I think of as white or stereotypically “Latin” saying they are Haitians. There are some sort of lighter-skinned poor people, but the ones with seriously Europeanized coloring & features are generally richies. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/12 "2010-01-26T22:44:48Z")
Well, in Los Angeles whites are a minority and we have a Latino mayor. So there’s your “ruling” non-whites for you, but socioeconomic divisions are another story… ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/13 "2010-01-26T23:23:01Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > there are many white expats living in Japan and Korea and many of them (Engrish teachers and such) probably are not well-off compared to the locals and are not exactly “celebrated for their diversity” either. However, the big difference between white and Asian nations is that the Asians don’t allow immigration - so these people of the wrong race/ethnicity stay as expats and eventually leave. Meanwhile, many if not most white nations allow large number of permanent immigrants, including from poor non-white countries. I guess our troubles in this regard serve as a fine object lesson to the Asians of what NOT to do. White ex-pats in Korea teaching English are nowhere near the bottom of the social chain. For what they do they get paid extremely well and it’s considered a respectable profession. Especially compared to the Southeast Asian illegal immigrants who are constantly explioted for cheap labor. Koreans are quite xenophobic and any foreigner is going to run into some kind fo prejudice at some time or another, but that being said, white ex-pats are better off than many of the other foreigners living here. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/14 "2010-01-27T00:03:24Z")
on the matter of Japanese immigration law, interesting info, thanks. However, regardless of the letter of the law, how many people do actually naturalize per year? Wikipedia doesn’t contain this info which suggests that this number isn’t big. On the matter of Korea, while there are some non-white minorities who are poorer (and maybe even openly mistreated for racist reasons) than white expats, the whites are still disadvantaged compared to the locals. I am not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing or that Koreans should amend their ways, but that’s in practice what seems to be happening, for better or worse. As far as white underclass goes, the one well-known case is the British white underclass. However, it’s not a result of non-white oppression, just something that grew out of the interplay of their welfare state, education and economic policies. Normally even the very poor whites (Jews in Nazi ghettos, Romanians during the economic crisis at the end of the Ceausescu regime, Cubans during the “special period” and so forth) still behave reasonably well. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/15 "2010-01-27T00:37:14Z")
Since we’re not quibbling over oppressed, I vote Taos, NM. I lived there for 6 years. As a white business owner I had to jump through twice as many legal hoops as non-whites. Almost all positions of authority (judges, cops, etc) were hispanic and the Native Americans had a pretty strong influence as well, as did the Tribal Police. It’s a friendly enough place to vacation because you are spending money but as a citizen I wasn’t feeling the love. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/16 "2010-01-27T00:38:01Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > If you want to go into the past, you might claim the Balkans under the Ottoman Empire, although that may stretch your definition of “non-white” which is, of course, not well-defined anyway. Yeah, calling the Turks non-white is pretty problematic, even ignoring that some early sultans were far more Greek than Turkish by birth ( Bayezid I was probably 3/4 Greek ). But beyond that the Ottoman ruling class was highly cosmopolitan and rather decentralized - plenty of Balkan-origined folks made it into the upper echelons of power. In fact up until the 19th century “Turk” was a disparaging word used by the Ottoman elite as a synonym for “hick.” ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/17 "2010-01-27T01:04:56Z")
What about South Africa nowadays? > **[The Times & The Sunday Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/)** > > News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/18 "2010-01-27T01:12:49Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > What about South Africa nowadays? Median annual income for whites in SA is over 5x that of blacks and white unemployment in only ~1/7th that of black unemployment. [Demographics of South Africa - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/19 "2010-01-27T01:14:50Z")
Going back in time, there were the White Russians in China between the World Wars. As stateless refugees, they weren’t protected by treaty rights until the League of Nations issued them Nansen passports. But that didn’t much keep them from being squeezed by the warlords/gansters who ran China back then. Luckily, they had been among the elites in Tsarist Russia, so they had the skills to function and stay cohesive as a group, but often they still had to pimp out their women to survive. ---
**Author:** ![MatthewGerlach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@MatthewGerlach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MatthewGerlach)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572/20 "2010-01-27T01:45:49Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Hahahaha. No. Upper-crust Haitians tend to be descended from mulattoes. Some of them look very different from the black majority. I have been surprised by people I think of as white or stereotypically “Latin” saying they are Haitians. > > There are some sort of lighter-skinned poor people, but the ones with seriously Europeanized coloring & features are generally richies. But that would be nowadays. The mulattoes resulted from the interaction between the white population and the black population, but even back then the whites were in much smaller number than the native Haitians. Nevertheless I must agree with you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-places-where-whites-are-an-oppressed-minority/526572.md?page=2)