As a liberal Christian myself, I’d probably echo what was said upthread that if one doesn’t believe in the physical resurrection of Christ, then what’s the point in belonging to a religious community? Now obviously there are some who think the good work in the community (taking care of the poor and homeless) or just having a group of people to hang out with is a good reason to do so, but I’d rather sleep in on Sundays if I didn’t think Jesus rose from the dead. After all, without the resurrection, Jesus is just a prophet. Without the whole conquering death thing (and its corollaries: sin, the devil, etc) which leads one to hope that life and love is coming to wipe away all the crap (ie, the world is shit sometimes, people are mean - it’d be cool if that was reversed), it really isn’t all the compelling.
Just a prophet who did miracles, who died for our sins and created an entirely new covenant through which we could get into Heaven, right?
And there are billions of people who belong to a religious community who don’t believe in the physical resurrection of Christ isn’t there? I mean…at least a billion?
The later two don’t particularly resonate IMO if He didn’t come back. The dying to save us from the power of sin and to create a new covenant tend mean something if he conquers death (meaning Jesus actually is God and so can do those things - in Islam, where Jesus and Mohammed are prophets, they may have done the miraculous, but you don’t have a dying for the sins of the world/new covenant type of theology). I mean I guess you can believe that He did all that while staying dead, but I’m with Paul; if Jesus doesn’t come back from the dead, it doesn’t work for me.
This thread is about Christianity. Any religious community references refer to that which the OP was meaning to have discussed.
Well, let me warn you I’m an atheist.
However, it seems to me that once Jesus died, it would be the appropriate point in time for him to get busy with the “preparing a place” task.
A significant part of the message is that our earthly bodies are temporary - lasting ~0% of one’s infinite lifetime. Coming back to a temporary body doesn’t really fit the message of Jesus offering eternal life with heavenly bodies. Plus, then “ascending into heaven” is also not on theme.
Sorry, it wasn’t directed towards anything you had said. Or at least most of it wasn’t.
Note, I was vaguely aware of this and didn’t realize its such a strong part of the Bible…but apparently, we don’t go to heaven or hell or limbo when we die, but stay in the ground until Jesus comes back and he will raise us ALL in our same bodies.* And then we will be judged. And those judged worthy will ascend to heaven not in ghost like spiritual bodies but real bodies. I say all that without judgement except the asterisked part.
*Yes, yes…even if given the benefit of the doubt that we will rise in good condition and not as rotted skeletons or animated dust and ash…what about babies? Or the deformed?
That implies that he wasn’t worth following prior to the crucifixion. I would say that his message during his working years was the main reason for revering him. The Romans crucified a lot of people; they weren’t all moral visionaries.
Well, not our SAME bodies. From I Corinthians 15, the main chapter where Paul talks about the importance of the resurrection:
See also a bit further down, verses 50-54, which are the source of the famous lyrics from Handel’s Messiah:
Thanks Thudlow. That’s very interesting.
Yes, the idea is what we will all be resurrected in a perfected body - so like our body, but a bit better. And Christ was the “first fruits” (1 Cor 15:20), so we’re all supposed to be resurrected like Him, at the end. Now there will be a judgment, but as to the question of whether anyone doesn’t go to Heaven at the end of judgment is a debatable point.
Unitarians?
That’s going to suck for anyone who was cremated.
That was indeed the reason that Christians didn’t cremate anyone for a long while.
Fascinating. Thanks for this.
It would have to be non-creedal. All of the creeds include it. What is or isn’t a Christian is a matter of debate of course. My personal opinion is that the Nicene Creed is pretty much the definition of Christian. If you believe it, you fall within the definition of Christian. If you don’t, you may be something close to Christian, but you’re probably outside the box. It’s pretty basic stuff, God made the world, Christ came into it, died and rose again, because of that our sins can be forgiven and we get to be with him one day.
I have a liberal Christian Facebook friend who believes like that. Weird thing is that she grew up pentecostal and spoke in tongues and all that.
She just calls herself a liberal Christian. Since I didn’t agree with her beliefs, I chose “Jesus was a liberal” as my religion.
When I was attending a Quaker congregation, I took part in a weekly study group in which one of the elders walked us through the history and practices of the denomination. She explained to us that while there wasn’t a central dogma in Quakerism, there were some basic things that unified all Quakers. One of those things is the belief that Jesus was divine.
So to be a Quaker (at least according to this one person), you don’t have to believe that Jesus rose from the dead. But you do have to appreciate that he was special…that he wasn’t just a mere human being…but that he was a living testament to God’s existence.