# Are there really language identifiers out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504 "2012-12-19T08:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/1 "2012-12-19T08:59:01Z")
I remember in the movie “The usual suspects” there was some guy who was part of or worked for the police department, who seemed to be an expert in just recognizing a whole bunch of languages, but not necessarily being fluent enough to translate them. Basically, if some person was speaking a language no one recognized, they called in this specialist, he identified the language, then they found the translator who could actually translate for them. I hope I’m remembering the movie correctly, but even if not, are there really positions like this? Are there people who are specialized in recognizing hundreds of possible languages, but not necessarily knowing enough to be able to translate? How does one become good at recognizing tons of different languages, if this is a real thing? If the position is _not_ a real one, or not a very common one at least, then how do police departments and other government organizations deal with someone who cannot answer the question, “what language are you speaking?” Obviously I doubt this happens very much in real life, but still, might be interesting to know what happens. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/2 "2012-12-19T09:20:11Z")
You wouldn’t need to recognize hundreds, probably less than twenty would cover 99.9% of such situations. For for that .1% you could probably get a good guess as to further investigation. I mean hell I can almost always guess correctly WHAT language is being spoken, don’t most people? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/3 "2012-12-19T09:26:04Z")
Yeah, I agree the only thing that is unrealistic about this scenario is the need for such an “expert” to begin with… ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/4 "2012-12-19T09:26:24Z")
A linguist. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/5 "2012-12-19T09:30:37Z")
What you are asking about are called linguistic shibboleths. It is basically how we recognise accents. I imagine someone _really_ good at it might also know a few languages. It wouldn’t be a prerequisite however. Thanks for reminding me of something though. In the reference of Peter Colletts “Book of Tells”, there was mention of a book dealing with language “tells”. I’m going to try find that. By the way, Book of Tells is excellent. An easy and informative book, it is about body language. It was republished under a new title, more aimed at sensational readers, but the contents were the same, near as I can tell. It was not a book about “how to get laid.” It isnt about tricking people. I dont know if it is against the rules here, but here is an amazon link to his book. [http://www.amazon.com/Book-Tells-Peter-Collett/dp/0553814591](http://www.amazon.com/Book-Tells-Peter-Collett/dp/0553814591) Meanwhile, google shibboleth perhaps.You shouldn’t need to add linguistic, as they are normally factors of speech. As far as identifying an unknown language, I think the police would look for physical traits if at all possible. An experienced eye(especially with a reference book) knows the difference between a Chinese man and a Korean one for instance. For people of Africa, the Sudanese look a lot different from people of South Africa. Even among whites there is often a great deal of difference. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/6 "2012-12-19T10:41:46Z")
Many 9-1-1 centers deal with this by using a language line translating service. If we are absolutely unable to determine which language we transfer it over to the language line and let them figure it out. Must be harder without visual clues. But generally we have a good idea about which languages are more common in our community. We have plenty of Spanish and Tagalog speakers but I once got tripped up by someone who was speaking Polish. The Polish guy at least managed to give me an address; the police went and saw his passport and then we figured out who to call to translate. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/7 "2012-12-19T10:54:45Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Yeah, I agree the only thing that is unrealistic about this scenario is the need for such an “expert” to begin with… Not necessarily, I would not recognize Swahili for instance or Hebrew or Sinhalese. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/8 "2012-12-19T10:56:03Z")
There are all sorts of clues that you can use. Is it a tonal language (like Chinese or Vietnamese)? Does it have lots of hard consonants (like the Slavic languages or Arabic)? Then you might look for particular words that are frequent in one language, but rare or impossible in others – e.g., if a person repeatedly says “the”, then it’s 99.99% sure that they are speaking English (it’s a very common word in English, and impossible to say in most other languages). A person exposed to multiple languages can learn such clues fairly easily without being able to speak fluently in any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/9 "2012-12-19T14:53:53Z")
“Linguistic shibboleth.” How great is that? I’ve always loved the etymological story of “shibboleth.” It’s about a linguistic shibboleth right there–so the linguistics term is basically redundant! ETA: I take that back. The spy who is challenged for the password, if he gives “sibboleth,” could still be speaking Hebrew, we’re “sibboleth” a Hebrew word; it’s a graphic challenge (as well as a simple challenge, so it’s a second layer), that he might have intercepted the code word. I have no idea. For that matter “shibboleth’” might have been a nonce word too. It would make sense for a code bunch-of-phonemes. I’m running out of time to search for the cite in the Bible for this episode… ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/10 "2012-12-19T15:04:20Z")
Judges 12:5-6. The wiki is interesting: The word does have a meaning, but so what. Still don’t know about “sibboleth.” Have to ask a Ephramite or Gileadite when I get around to it. > **[Shibboleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth)** > > A shibboleth (/ˈʃɪbəlɛθ, -ɪθ/ (listen); Biblical Hebrew: .mw-parser-output .script-hebrew,.mw-parser-output .script-Hebr{font-family:"SBL Hebrew","SBL BibLit","Taamey Ashkenaz","Taamey Frank CLM","Frank Ruehl CLM","Ezra SIL","Ezra SIL SR","Keter Aram Tsova","Taamey David CLM","Keter YG","Shofar","David CLM","Hadasim CLM","Simple CLM","Nachlieli",Cardo,Alef,"Noto Serif Hebrew","Noto Sans Hebrew","David Libre",David,"Times New Roman",Gisha,Arial,FreeSerif,FreeSans}שִׁבֹּלֶת‎, romanized: šībbō The t... “Lollapalooza” was an American shibboleth in the Pacific in WWII. Huh. Nice list there too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/11 "2012-12-19T15:04:46Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > How does one become good at recognizing tons of different languages, if this is a real thing? By listening and studying, of course. How are you able to tell when someone is speaking German vs Spanish? This is not rocket surgery, afterall. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/12 "2012-12-19T15:05:50Z")
Some people are good at recognizing languages even they aren’t fluent in all of them. What’s the big deal? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/13 "2012-12-19T15:07:41Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “Linguistic shibboleth.” How great is that? > > I’ve always loved the etymological story of “shibboleth.” It’s about a linguistic shibboleth right there–so the linguistics term is basically redundant! > > ETA: I take that back. The spy who is challenged for the password, if he gives “sibboleth,” could still be speaking Hebrew, we’re “sibboleth” a Hebrew word; it’s a graphic challenge (as well as a simple challenge, so it’s a second layer), that he might have intercepted the code word. I have no idea. > > For that matter “shibboleth’” might have been a nonce word too. It would make sense for a code bunch-of-phonemes. > > I’m running out of time to search for the cite in the Bible for this episode… [Hijack]There was a sort of civil war going on, basically Judah against Ephraim (foreshadowing the Judea/Israel divide after Solomon). Supposedly, the Ephraimites were incapable of enunciating “Sh”, therefore a Judean would, “properly,” say “shibboleth” while an Ephraimite would say “sibboleth” and would thus be caught – which is the reason this particular word was selected as the code (or possibly they were simply challenged to pronounce it; I don’t remember at the moment).[/Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/14 "2012-12-19T15:18:43Z")
Yes, it’s a challenge of phonemes–hence its topicality to the OP. I happen to be particularly interested in handling of graphical information in oral and written speech communities (specifically, in music). That’s why I mentioned the episodes’s “back-up” encoding of the password: in theory, the challenged soldier could have learned the correct (to the challenger’s hearing) pronounciation of the code word, were he to have intercepted it in a written message. But since the “sh” and the “s” sounds have–in normal adult Hebrew text–the same grapheme, the challenger _still_ would not know which word to imitate. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/15 "2012-12-19T15:27:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Yes, it’s a challenge of phonemes–hence its topicality to the OP. I happen to be particularly interested in handling of graphical information in oral and written speech communities (specifically, in music). > > That’s why I mentioned the episodes’s “back-up” encoding of the password: > > in theory, the challenged soldier could have learned the correct (to the challenger’s hearing) pronounciation of the code word, were he to have intercepted it in a written message. > > But since the “sh” and the “s” sounds have–in normal adult Hebrew text–the same grapheme, the challenger _still_ would not know which word to imitate. I somehow doubt it was a \*reading \*comprehension test. You know, given the illiteracy rates of the time and place… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/16 "2012-12-19T15:29:40Z")
I wonder if that’s ever been studied. Somebody must’ve, right? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/17 "2012-12-19T15:34:20Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I remember in the movie “The usual suspects” there was some guy who was part of or worked for the police department, who seemed to be an expert in just recognizing a whole bunch of languages, but not necessarily being fluent enough to translate them. Basically, if some person was speaking a language no one recognized, they called in this specialist, he identified the language, then they found the translator who could actually translate for them. > > I hope I’m remembering the movie correctly You’re not, actually. They figure out the Hungarian is speaking Hungarian because they’ve already identified the bodies of the dead gangmembers as Hungarians. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/18 "2012-12-19T15:42:00Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Yeah, I agree the only thing that is unrealistic about this scenario is the need for such an “expert” to begin with… I can more or less recognize a Slavic language by ear, but I couldn’t tell you if it’s Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech or Serbian if my life depended on it. Could you ? 😉 I’d assume that, for example, a linguist who speaks at least one of them and is aware of the way all the other Slavic languages differ specifically from the known one (be it grammar, spelling, pronunciation of phonemes, recognizing a few words…) would be able to tell “yup, that’s Polish all right. But I don’t speak Polish, get a 'terp.” ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/19 "2012-12-19T15:43:25Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “Linguistic shibboleth.” . . . Band name! ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/20 "2012-12-19T15:55:45Z")
I wrote a long post that was eaten by gremlins so here’s the short of it. You can get the guy to ID anything (hold a up map to get his origin, count to get him counting, show colours, etc) then use google to nail down an exact language. No expert is really needed for this part. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504.md?page=2)