# Are there really language identifiers out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504 "2012-12-19T08:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/41 "2012-12-19T23:33:08Z")
Oops ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/42 "2012-12-19T23:42:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How the heck does someone who is monolingual in Irish end up in Chicago? Actually, how the heck does someone who is monolingual in Irish end up in Ireland? Yes, there are people whose first language is Irish. But monolingual in Irish? That would be as difficult as finding a Netherlander who didn’t speak English. Since you bring it up, no it wouldn’t. It would be much easier to find someone in the Netherlands who didn’t speak English than to find someone in Ireland who didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/43 "2012-12-20T00:11:46Z")
Universal Translator. For real. Smart phones do all the work. If it’s spoken, use Google Translate. Written, use Google Goggles. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/44 "2012-12-20T01:08:15Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I do that professionally. If it’s a real language I can name it. If it’s meaningless gibberish I can rule out its being a real language (unless it’s encrypted text). I was going to chime in this thread and mention that you specifically seem to be pretty good at this. I didn’t realize you were a professional. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/45 "2012-12-20T02:06:17Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > A few weeks ago, I had occasion to go to the local office of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Enforcement and Removal Operations. They had a poster along those lines next to the reception window. It included samples for (among many others) Welsh and Yiddish. How many monolingual Welsh or Yiddish speakers are there in Chicago, or in the world for that matter? In New York City there are still neighborhoods where it is common for people’s first language to be Yiddish, and for Yiddish to be the main language people speak on the streets. Whether any of them are actually monolingual I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/46 "2012-12-20T02:33:33Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > The list was obviously created on a computer, and Homeland Security (the agency, anyway) didn’t exist until a few years ago. And there are plenty of reasons to keep Polish/Ukrainian/Russian/Lithuanian, etc. interpreters around here, anyway. Yes, of course, but I meant a historical holdover in the procedures that govern the printing of the chart, not that the document itself was from the 30s. I expect the Department of Homeland Security didn’t write up all of its internal policies from scratch when it was laid down ; like all mergers/re-organizations they built heavily on infrastructure that had already been laid down ages ago, which were themselves updates of existing stuff, yadda yadda. As long as something doesn’t needlessly cost a large amount of money or breaks things there’s little reason or drive to scratch it from the books & procedures. God knows large organisations & administrations practically run on mindlessly applying Kafkaesque procedures… Certainly plenty of laws, regulations, ordinances and so forth remain or have remained in the books long after they’d become obsolete. IOW, bureaucratic common sense\* would IMO have it that since it doesn’t cost much of anything to keep Yiddish on the language look-up charts, and since evidently there \*must \*have been a need for it to be there at some point else it wouldn’t be there to begin with, why remove it (even if no one can quite remember what that need was) ? \*which is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike regular common sense 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/47 "2012-12-20T09:06:16Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’m skeptical that there are a large number of _monolingual_ Irish or Welsh speakers, but I’m more willing to believe that there are more bilingual Irish/something else speakers where that “other” language happens to be something other than English. I know that there is a community of Welsh speakers in South America that speaks Spanish as its second language, but I’m not sure about Irish. Did this person speak any other languages fluently? It’s possible that he was of Irish ancestry and grew up in France or something and speaks fluent Irish (thanks to his parents) and French (thanks to French public schools) but isn’t that good at English because he didn’t really get to use it. > > […] [Monolingual Irish Speaker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP4nXlKJx_4) (from 1985). ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/48 "2012-12-20T09:31:27Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > A language can be lost in a family in a short amount of time - I can attest to that. My eldest paternal aunt failed first grade because she spoke German and not English. She was born Canadian. My grandparents banned their household from speaking German after that. My dad was next in line, and he is about 2 year younger than she. I don’t think either of them speak or understand it. Nobody in the family can speak it now, except perhaps my grandmother, who has nobody with which to converse in German. She speaks perfect English, unaccented, so she isn’t isolated. My mom is a first generation Canadian, and speaks almost no German either. She can probably curse in it, but she isn’t the type to do that. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/49 "2012-12-20T13:20:54Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I do that professionally. If it’s a real language I can name it. If it’s meaningless gibberish I can rule out its being a real language (unless it’s encrypted text). If ever there was a candidate for an “Ask the…” thread! Wait, do you mean you do this for written texts, or for scenarios as described in the OP? For example: Step 1: You are introduced to a West African-looking man speaking an unidentified language. Step 2: … Step 3: … […] Step n-1: … Step n: You triumphantly announce, “he’s a Tiv, and he’s speaking Tiv.” What are the intermediate steps? ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/50 "2012-12-20T13:24:35Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > Universal Translator. > > For real. Smart phones do all the work. If it’s spoken, use Google Translate. Written, use Google Goggles. Having extensive experience with Google Translate, I am very sceptical. Today, Google Chrome asked me on two occasions if I wanted it to translate a page for me. The first one, it said “This page is in Italian”. The second, “This page is in Catalan”. Both pages were in English. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/51 "2012-12-20T16:24:28Z")
Johanna, I’m really curious about your talent and your job, or how you use your skill professionally. Would you mind starting a thread or just posting a bit here, or point me to another thread where you might have already explained what you do and how many languages you know? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/52 "2012-12-20T17:18:33Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > If ever there was a candidate for an “Ask the…” thread! > > Wait, do you mean you do this for written texts, or for scenarios as described in the OP? > > For example: > > Step 1: You are introduced to a West African-looking man speaking an unidentified language. > Step 2: … > Step 3: … > […] > Step n-1: … > Step n: You triumphantly announce, “he’s a Tiv, and he’s speaking Tiv.” > > What are the intermediate steps? In post #30, I had thought that \*\*Johanna \*\*was referring to written language identification, and not spoken. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/53 "2012-12-20T18:48:36Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Johanna, I’m really curious about your talent and your job, or how you use your skill professionally. Would you mind starting a thread or just posting a bit here, or point me to another thread where you might have already explained what you do and how many languages you know? I’m curious too. I’m especially interested in how a person becomes a language identifier. Do you just get a degree in Linguistics? Is there a certificate or credential just for Language Identifiers, such as a “Certified Language Identifier” credential you can show to police or emergency response agencies so that they will hire you? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/54 "2012-12-20T19:10:43Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Having extensive experience with Google Translate, I am very sceptical. > > Today, Google Chrome asked me on two occasions if I wanted it to translate a page for me. The first one, it said “This page is in Italian”. The second, “This page is in Catalan”. > > Both pages were in English. Yea my wife got into this band from Africa and they sing in …a language I don’t remember, not only did all translation services online not have it it was hard to even search for it in text. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/55 "2012-12-20T20:55:17Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > If ever there was a candidate for an “Ask the…” thread! > > Wait, do you mean you do this for written texts, or for scenarios as described in the OP? > > For example: > > Step 1: You are introduced to a West African-looking man speaking an unidentified language. > Step 2: … > Step 3: … > […] > Step n-1: … > Step n: You triumphantly announce, “he’s a Tiv, and he’s speaking Tiv.” > > What are the intermediate steps? Well, it isn’t necessarily about the intermediate steps that can be summarized into a recipe to follow. It’s more a matter of having developed extensive background knowledge across world language families. Putting in the hours of familiarizing oneself with the salient characteristics of many different language families, plus the isolates. Having a massive memory of linguistic data plus an efficient indexing system. A combination of having extensive memory in your head and knowing where to go look up any information needed. You need your own memory and system of indexing it to get started. Then you can build on that by knowing what further information to look up, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/56 "2012-12-20T22:01:29Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Well, it isn’t necessarily about the intermediate steps that can be summarized into a recipe to follow. It’s more a matter of having developed extensive background knowledge across world language families. Putting in the hours of familiarizing oneself with the salient characteristics of many different language families, plus the isolates. Having a massive memory of linguistic data plus an efficient indexing system. A combination of having extensive memory in your head and knowing where to go look up any information needed. > > You need your own memory and system of indexing it to get started. Then you can build on that by knowing what further information to look up, if necessary. How far does this go? Could you, for example, recognize Kanuri or Daba? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/57 "2012-12-20T22:49:30Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > In post #30, I had thought that \*\*Johanna \*\*was referring to written language identification, and not spoken. It’s true that I do much better with written languages. But I have done some audio identification. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/58 "2012-12-20T22:58:23Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’m curious too. I’m especially interested in how a person becomes a language identifier. Do you just get a degree in Linguistics? Is there a certificate or credential just for Language Identifiers, such as a “Certified Language Identifier” credential you can show to police or emergency response agencies so that they will hire you? Oh goodness, no. When I worked in a language shop, people just knew I was the go-to gal for identifying languages. It was just a once in a while thing since the other people I worked with were pretty good at routine identification themselves, but I was available to be called in when the regulars got stumped. It amazes me how metal and electronica fans can distinguish so many finely split micro-grades of musical genres when the stuff pretty much all sounds the same to me, since I’m a fan of neither. How they can listen to a song and peg it to a given genre I’ve never heard of is beyond me. I’m even more hopeless with identifying makes, models, and years of cars. But if I were a car nut, I’d have the familiarity with all the different features to be able to place them. So knowing my languages is probably analogous to holding such fan-girl trivia in one’s mind. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/59 "2012-12-20T22:59:29Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > [all the stuff you said] _drums table_ Ask-the thread! Ask-the thread! Ask-the thread! Please? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504/60 "2012-12-20T22:59:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > How far does this go? Could you, for example, recognize Kanuri or Daba? The former, probably. The latter would take a lot longer. I’m rather weak in Nilo-Saharan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-language-identifiers-out-there/644504.md?page=4)