# Are there really only a dozen or so tropes or plotlines in most movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 20, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409 "2017-06-20T00:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/1 "2017-06-20T00:21:19Z")
I’ve heard this theory that there are a handful of plotlines that are common among most movies. Is that true? Something bad happens to a loved one, so the main character goes on a mission to get revenge. That is a common trope I’ve seen in multiple movies. However I don’t know if I agree with the concept that many/most/near all movies follow the same dozen or so plotlines and general ideas. Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/2 "2017-06-20T00:23:47Z")
Depends on how broad you want to get. Here’s a description of just about all movies/tv/books: Being deals with problems related to being a Being. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/3 "2017-06-20T00:37:46Z")
We’ve done this many times about novels, because people have claimed that there are only 12 plots, or 6, or 3, or 2. The entire argument is utterly meaningless. It always devolves to making larger and vaguer generalisms. All movies are about life and death. Bleh. Ignore whoever’s making the argument and get into a better discussion. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/4 "2017-06-20T02:28:06Z")
And all European philosophy is just [footnotes to Plato.](https://www.philosophersmag.com/footnotes-to-plato/57-introducing-footnotes-to-plato) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/5 "2017-06-20T02:28:19Z")
The Master speaks: > **[What are the seven basic literary plots?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343503/what-are-the-seven-basic-literary-plots)** ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/6 "2017-06-20T02:29:34Z")
Actually, the Greeks boiled it down to two plots – Comedy, in which the hero succeeds, or Tragedy, in which the hero succumbs While there are a few classic literary (including movie) themes such as Man Versus Self Man Versus Society Man Versus Man Man Versus Nature Man Versus Supernatural to call them “plots” is stretching things. Consider that “Man Versus Society” encompasses – among others – _Romeo and Juliet_, _Animal House_ and _High Noon_, while “Man Versus Nature” could describe both _Alien_ and _Airplane!_. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/7 "2017-06-20T02:38:06Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > However I don’t know if I agree with the concept that many/most/near all movies follow the same dozen or so plotlines and general ideas. Does anyone know? If you’re vague enough you can make the list of possible plots arbitrarily small, but it doesn’t actually mean anything. The standard short list includes items like ‘man vs man’ and ‘man vs nature’, which are so vague you can fit a whole variety of movies in between them. When you’re saying that Spider Man, The Maltese Falcon, Gattaca, The Dictator, Trading Places, Hamlet, and Airplane! all have the same plot, you’ve stretched the definition of ‘same’ so far it’s pretty worthless, and you’re not really saying much about the movies themselves. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/8 "2017-06-20T11:35:59Z")
Yes, and whey were all written by Boccaccio and then rewritten by Chaucer. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/9 "2017-06-20T13:03:17Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > We’ve done this many times about novels, because people have claimed that there are only 12 plots, or 6, or 3, or 2. > > The entire argument is utterly meaningless. It always devolves to making larger and vaguer generalisms. All movies are about life and death. Bleh. > > Ignore whoever’s making the argument and get into a better discussion. To the extent that someone is trying to make a Deep Statement on this topic, I agree. As a bit of cliche wisdom, though, the basic concept is sound. It’s just that the actual number doesn’t matter\*. The point is that narrative plots are like notes on the Western scale of music. There are only so many, and yet they can be used in an infinite variety of ways, from church chants to punk rants. So Humans can see both the simple foundation AND the richness of variety. Man, we’re deep. Also, the “few plots” topic also lends itself to understanding how the same few plots are used by different cultures and eras. Shakespeare is referred to as a Modern Human, not because he used the same foundational plots as most mythologies and cultural narratives, but because he focused on the internal dialogues of the characters vs the external moral lessons of old. The same set of plots were assumed; it was the interpretation that matters. So I like basic point, but it’s what you use it to noodle on that counts. \*I favor two: One day, our Hero went on a journey, and One day, a stranger came to town. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/10 "2017-06-20T13:49:18Z")
Link to [a previous thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18417718) where you said the same. (My reply, then, was a quote: “Let me tell you the plot of every one of his damned stories. _Somebody wanted something._ That’s the story. Mostly they get it, too.”) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/11 "2017-06-20T13:55:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Link to [a previous thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18417718) where you said the same. > > (My reply, then, was a quote: “Let me tell you the plot of every one of his damned stories. _Somebody wanted something._ That’s the story. Mostly they get it, too.”) I knew we’d hashed this over a few times here. At least I’m consistent 😉 and yeah, I like yours, too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/12 "2017-06-20T14:00:28Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I knew we’d hashed this over a few times here. Well, there’s only a limited number of… ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/13 "2017-06-20T14:21:33Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Something bad happens to a loved one, so the main character goes on a mission to get revenge. That is a common trope I’ve seen in multiple movies. Let’s say in one movie the bad guy gets away, in another the bad guy gets killed, and in another, the hero decides that revenge isn’t the answer. Is it the same plot? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/14 "2017-06-20T14:28:46Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Let’s say in one movie the bad guy gets away, in another the bad guy gets killed, and in another, the hero decides that revenge isn’t the answer. > > Is it the same plot? _Boy Meets Girl, Boy Gets Girl, Boy Loses Girl_: is it the same plot if he’s Oedipus? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/15 "2017-06-20T14:46:16Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > To the extent that someone is trying to make a Deep Statement on this topic, I agree. As a bit of cliche wisdom, though, the basic concept is sound. It’s just that the actual number doesn’t matter\*. > > The point is that narrative plots are like notes on the Western scale of music. There are only so many, and yet they can be used in an infinite variety of ways, from church chants to punk rants. So Humans can see both the simple foundation AND the richness of variety. Man, we’re deep. > > Also, the “few plots” topic also lends itself to understanding how the same few plots are used by different cultures and eras. Shakespeare is referred to as a Modern Human, not because he used the same foundational plots as most mythologies and cultural narratives, but because he focused on the internal dialogues of the characters vs the external moral lessons of old. The same set of plots were assumed; it was the interpretation that matters. > > So I like basic point, but it’s what you use it to noodle on that counts. > > \*I favor two: One day, our Hero went on a journey, and One day, a stranger came to town. 😉 Isn’t this the “better argument” I mentioned upthread? 🙂 kunilou had a better set of plots, though. And I’m seeing a bias in both yours and his in that they are male-oriented. Romance novels probably outnumber every other type of fiction published today combined. You can put romance into “a stranger came to town” but that does as much serious damage to romance as it does to that definition. Most of the academic discussion of story since WWII has involved not the ways the story can be _told_, but the ways that story can be _read_. Everything from deconstruction to queer theory involves the reader’s perspective (and often privileges it over the writer’s). Yes, much of that can be stretched to extremely silly head-up-buttness. I’m reading a critical edition of \*Frankenstein \*that comes with academic essays in five areas of criticism: Reader-response, Psychoanalytic, Feminist, Marxist, and Cultural. I don’t think there’s any overlap in them to the point where you might not realize they were talking about the same book. I’m reading \*Frankenstein \*because I want to use it as a historical reference for my book on robots in popular culture, specifically about humans as creators who fear their creations. The actual plot of \*Frankenstein \*is irrelevant for almost all these perspectives. It flows over several of kunilou’s categories as well. As you note, the only item of interest or importance is what the author does with the plot, not what the plot is or how it can be categorized. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/16 "2017-06-20T14:49:02Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Actually, the Greeks boiled it down to two plots – > > Comedy, in which the hero succeeds, or > Tragedy, in which the hero succumbs > > While there are a few classic literary (including movie) themes such as > > Man Versus Self > Man Versus Society > Man Versus Man > Man Versus Nature > Man Versus Supernatural > > to call them “plots” is stretching things. Consider that “Man Versus Society” encompasses – among others – _Romeo and Juliet_, _Animal House_ and _High Noon_, while “Man Versus Nature” could describe both _Alien_ and _Airplane!_. I came in here to basically say the same thing. 🙂 The traditional idea behind a literary story is to create conflict. That narrative then creates different possible endings depending on how the conflict is resolved. When I was in school I was taught four different types of narrative conflict: 1 Man vs man 2 Man vs nature 3 Man vs self 4 Man vs society And I see kunilou added another one that I wasn’t aware of. So to answer the OPs question, I’d say there were less than a dozen plotlines; but each retelling can be interesting in it’s own right. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/17 "2017-06-20T14:50:25Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Let’s say in one movie the bad guy gets away, in another the bad guy gets killed, and in another, the hero decides that revenge isn’t the answer. > > Is it the same plot? You left out the one where the hero discovers that the bad guy was actually not the bad guy, and its variant in which the person the hero was expecting to be his strongest ally was actually the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ecks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ecks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ecks)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/18 "2017-06-20T15:03:22Z")
Here’s a related question: How much can you change a story’s setting and characters before the story is fundamentally different? Is Forbidden Planet still the Tempest? If I make a movie about superspy Jane Bond, is it still a James Bond movie? What if I set that movie in ancient Egypt? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/19 "2017-06-20T15:09:21Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > I came in here to basically say the same thing. 🙂 > The traditional idea behind a literary story is to create conflict. That narrative then creates different possible endings depending on how the conflict is resolved. When I was in school I was taught four different types of narrative conflict: > 1 Man vs man > 2 Man vs nature > 3 Man vs self > 4 Man vs society > > And I see kunilou added another one that I wasn’t aware of. So to answer the OPs question, I’d say there were less than a dozen plotlines; but each retelling can be interesting in it’s own right. What about a combo? I’m guessing a story where our hero is a fugitive on the run from the law would be the Man-Vs-Society plot – but let’s say he’s doing that while he’s trying to clear his name, proving he’s innocent by proving a guilty individual framed him; couldn’t that be a Man-Vs-Man plot? So what _is_ it when you have Harrison Ford hunting one guy _and_ getting hunted by guys in general? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409/20 "2017-06-20T15:18:31Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > I came in here to basically say the same thing. 🙂 > The traditional idea behind a literary story is to create conflict. That narrative then creates different possible endings depending on how the conflict is resolved. When I was in school I was taught four different types of narrative conflict: > 1 Man vs man > 2 Man vs nature > 3 Man vs self > 4 Man vs society > > And I see kunilou added another one that I wasn’t aware of. So to answer the OPs question, I’d say there were less than a dozen plotlines; but each retelling can be interesting in it’s own right. Out of curiosity, what year did you graduate?. I learned there were only 3: Man vs Man, Man vs Nature, and Man vs Himself. I graduated in '91. I was just wondering if they added \*society \*since then, or removed it before I learned it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-really-only-a-dozen-or-so-tropes-or-plotlines-in-most-movies/789409.md?page=2)