# Are There Sects of Islam OK with Drinking Alcohol? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188 "2011-12-14T16:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheUthaBrutha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@TheUthaBrutha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheUthaBrutha)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/1 "2011-12-14T16:51:15Z")
I always thought that consuming alcohol was strictly forbidden by Islam. I was watching a documentary on YouTube, showing some Muslims OK with drinking. The Wikipedia says: > [@](#): > > Qatar bans the importation of alcohol and it is a punishable offense to drink alcohol or be drunk in public. Offenders may incur a prison sentence or deportation. Alcohol is, however, available at licensed hotel restaurants and bars, and non-Muslim expatriates living in Qatar can obtain alcohol on a permit system at the Qatar Distribution Center, the only distributor allowed to sell alcohol. So it seems while some Muslim countries ban alcohol and others ban it only to Muslims but permit a small number of licenses for non-Muslim residents and guests. I was wondering are there any sects of Islam which are OK with drinking? Or are the Muslims that drink simply exercising some kind of personal choice and modifying their own religion a bit, like other religious people do? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/2 "2011-12-14T17:45:45Z")
> [@TheUthaBrutha](#): > > I always thought that consuming alcohol was strictly forbidden by Islam. I was watching a documentary on YouTube, showing some Muslims OK with drinking. I do not know of any organised group of orthodox Imams who say it is okay exactly, but there are good numbers of Muslims who have rationales for drinking and so drink. > [@](#): > > So it seems while some Muslim countries ban alcohol and others ban it only to Muslims but permit a small number of licenses for non-Muslim residents and guests. The Gulf is a very unusual place. In fact in most Islamic countries in the Maghreb, in Africa, etc alcohol can be obtained. In the Maghreb you can go to the supermarket and buy it and no one asks you for anything of religious identification, and there are bars where you never see any expatriate. It is also true in Lebanon, and even in some places in Egypt (altough some of them in those bars are Christians). > [@](#): > > Or are the Muslims that drink simply exercising some kind of personal choice and modifying their own religion a bit, like other religious people do? Yes, we are not a hive mind. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/3 "2011-12-14T17:59:06Z")
From my experience, Bosnian Muslims were generally not ones to shy away from a stiff drink of slivovica (slivovitz/plum brandy), but I’m not sure how it officially plays into their faith. I assume it’s technically forbidden, but someone with a little more knowledge might be able to chime in. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/4 "2011-12-14T18:20:31Z")
> [@TheUthaBrutha](#): > > Or are the Muslims that drink simply exercising some kind of personal choice and modifying their own religion a bit, like other religious people do? This, I think. A Muslim co-worker (who thoroughly enjoyed a nip of wine now & again) used to say “Lots of muslims like to drink, but they always check carefully to make sure the Imam isn’t watching.” Kind of like the folksy advice I’ve heard about fishing with Mormons… _Never take a Mormon fishing, he’ll drink all your beer. Take two or more, then you can have all the beer yourse_lf. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/5 "2011-12-14T18:44:05Z")
Alcohol is flatly banned by the Koran, so there is really no way to consume alcohol in a way that is permissible as a religious matter. So by definition there cannot be a “sect of Islam” in which drinking is okay. However, there exist plenty of Muslims who drink. They’re not “modifying” the religion; they’re just not following it, in that particular respect. ---
**Author:** ![Pantani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/87869e/32.png) [@Pantani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantani)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/6 "2011-12-14T19:36:13Z")
I’ve spent some time in Egypt and the attitude of most of the twenty somethings seemed to be that having a beer after a hard day was OK but it was just one beer and that was it. Never saw a drunk person and was careful to limit my intake. Having a beer was done discretly but not in secret as such. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/7 "2011-12-14T19:47:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Alcohol is flatly banned by the Koran, so there is really no way to consume alcohol in a way that is permissible as a religious matter. So by definition there cannot be a “sect of Islam” in which drinking is okay. However, there exist plenty of Muslims who drink. They’re not “modifying” the religion; they’re just not following it, in that particular respect. Does it technically say all alcohol is forbidden, or does it ban wine, and by extension most assume it bans all alcohol? I’ve never read the original. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/8 "2011-12-14T20:02:33Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Does it technically say all alcohol is forbidden, or does it ban wine, and by extension most assume it bans all alcohol? I’ve never read the original. The surah al maidah says to “avoid” “khumr” which is generally the word for wine, but is taken to mean more broadly intoxicating beverages by scholars. There are individuals who argue the verse is not a prohibition. It is not a standard view and no one of religious learning promotes it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/9 "2011-12-14T20:24:12Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > The surah al maidah says to “avoid” “khumr” which is generally the word for wine, but is taken to mean more broadly intoxicating beverages by scholars. > > There are individuals who argue the verse is not a prohibition. It is not a standard view and no one of religious learning promotes it. Is that kind of like “Blessed are the cheese makers” can be construed to refer to the makers of any dairy product, not just cheese? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/10 "2011-12-14T20:26:20Z")
I think there’s quite a popular belief that Sufism (or at least some sects of Sufism) permits the drinking of alcohol due to the use of wine as a metaphor in Sufi poetry and it’s less dogmatic approach. But I think that’s actually not true and Sufis generally observe the prohibition on alcohol just as strictly as other sects of Islam. That said there are certainly Muslims who drink. For example in Turkey which according to the government is 99.8% Muslim, there’s no problem obtaining alcohol and infact there’s at least one beer company entirely native to Turkey - Efes who are a major brand in that country. They even sponsor sports team and I’d say their advertising is about as ubquitious as Budweiser is in the USA. It’s intersting that it’s still very hard (depending on location) to obtain pork products in Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/11 "2011-12-14T20:40:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that kind of like “Blessed are the cheese makers” can be construed to refer to the makers of any dairy product, not just cheese? I am sorry, what? > [@These are my own pants](#): > > I think there’s quite a popular belief that Sufism (or at least some sects of Sufism) permits the drinking of alcohol due to the use of wine as a metaphor in Sufi poetry and it’s less dogmatic approach. But I think that’s actually not true and Sufis generally observe the prohibition on alcohol just as strictly as other sects of Islam. > > That said there are certainly Muslims who drink. For example in Turkey which according to the government is 99.8% Muslim, there’s no problem obtaining alcohol and infact there’s at least one beer company entirely native to Turkey - Efes who are a major brand in that country. They even sponsor sports team and I’d say their advertising is about as ubquitious as Budweiser is in the USA. It’s intersting that it’s still very hard (depending on location) to obtain pork products in Turkey. Sufi Tariqa are not sects, one is Sunni and can be member of an order, a Tariqa (path to God). Some Sufi tariqa do have some reputation for being more forgive and let live spiritualists. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/12 "2011-12-14T20:56:57Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > I am sorry, what? He’s joking a little. It’s a reference to a satirical scene in Monty Python’s _The Life of Brian_. There is a group of people listening to Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount, but they’re in the very back where they can’t hear well. When Jesus says, “blessed are the peacemakers,” some of them mishear it as “blessed are the cheesemakers” and there follows a discussion on exactly what Jesus means by this. Someone suggests that Jesus means that Jesus is not just blessing cheesemakers, but the makers of all dairy products. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/13 "2011-12-14T21:16:12Z")
I know many, many Muslims who drink alcohol. If you ever get to Istanbul, it has some of the best sidewalk beer bars in the world and many are packed with locals (many of whom are almost certainly Muslims). As a Muslim friend of mine puts it about having a beer every now and then: “that’s between me and God.” Different Muslim majority governments have different laws governing alcohol sales, there is a huge range of attitudes in Islam. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/14 "2011-12-15T00:30:34Z")
A friend who married a Uighur woman noted that her relatives were pretty hard-drinking. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/15 "2011-12-15T01:20:26Z")
Is this an Arab vs non-Arab thing, where Arab cultures are more likely to shun alcohol whereas non-Arab cultures (like the Turks) are less rigid about it? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/16 "2011-12-15T02:00:26Z")
In my experience the best way to answer these questions for yourself is to think: \*“You know what Christianity and Christians is/are like (all of it/them, worldwide)? That’s what Islam/Moslems will almost certainly be like.” \* Of course there are differences. But mostly there are parallels. Sure, alcohol may be flatly banned by the Koran. There are any number of things that are flatly banned by the Bible but which millions of Christians do without a qualm. There are Moslems and Christians of every stripe. People are people and the religions they create for themselves tend to have more in common than in difference. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/17 "2011-12-15T03:40:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is this an Arab vs non-Arab thing, where Arab cultures are more likely to shun alcohol whereas non-Arab cultures (like the Turks) are less rigid about it? Doesn’t seem to be that simple. Northern Africa (Mahgreb) are Arab states, but have much more lax rules on Alcohol than most Arab Gulf States. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Iran are all non-arab and have heavy restrictions on alcohol (completely banned for muslims). South East Asian muslims are also extremely tolerant, in Indonesia and Malaysia alcohol is freely available to muslims and non-muslims. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/18 "2011-12-15T06:09:09Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Doesn’t seem to be that simple. Northern Africa (Mahgreb) are Arab states, but have much more lax rules on Alcohol than most Arab Gulf States. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Iran are all non-arab and have heavy restrictions on alcohol (completely banned for muslims). > > South East Asian muslims are also extremely tolerant, in Indonesia and Malaysia alcohol is freely available to muslims and non-muslims. You are wrong about Pakistan. Drinking is fine as long as it is in the home or in a licensed bar. Being caught drinking in a public place or in a state of intoxication is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/19 "2011-12-15T07:48:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You are wrong about Pakistan. Drinking is fine as long as it is in the home or in a licensed bar. Being caught drinking in a public place or in a state of intoxication is illegal. Everywhere I’ve seen states that its only legal for non-muslims to buy Alcohol. See here: [http://ahmadiyyatimes.blogspot.com/2011/10/pakistan-beer-over-belief-as-alcohol.html](http://ahmadiyyatimes.blogspot.com/2011/10/pakistan-beer-over-belief-as-alcohol.html) "It’s like ordering a pizza,” an Islamabad resident said. “You pick up the phone and in 15 minutes the bootlegger is at your front door.” So sure it’s available, but only because non-muslims use their permits to sell to muslims illegally. Whether that’s enforced or not is another mater, but what does the current law actually say for muslims in Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188/20 "2011-12-15T09:38:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > The surah al maidah says to “avoid” “khumr” which is generally the word for wine, but is taken to mean more broadly intoxicating beverages by scholars. > > There are individuals who argue the verse is not a prohibition. It is not a standard view and no one of religious learning promotes it. My first taste of Kava was with a Group of Muslim Fijian Indians,they are quite fond of their Kava and assure me its not mentioned in the Koran. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sects-of-islam-ok-with-drinking-alcohol/606188.md?page=2)