# Are there sharks in the Great Lakes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075 "2006-05-02T07:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/61 "2006-05-11T04:17:39Z")
[QUOTE=LouisB] I remember reading a newspaper story about a teenaged girl who required psychiatric (sp?) help due to that movie. She was completely unable to enter any body of water larger than a bathtub without experiencing disabling panic attacks. She was a life long resident of Kansas. [/QUOTE] Dude. I totally wasn’t able to shower OR bathe for a month after seeing that, in reruns, on TV, while visiting my dad on court-ordered visitation. My mom was $uper-pi$$ed at daddy over that… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/62 "2006-05-11T04:35:59Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] I dunno what he’s on about, but he’s still saying he’s correct. _shrug_ whatcha gonna do? I even pulled up a map and showed him but he’s saying that the falls are a dranage off of the lakes and river and not in the way from the great lakes to the sea at all. [/QUOTE] I have no idea what your roommate _thinks_ he is claiming, but the Welland Canal (which connects Lake Ontario with the “Upper Lakes” via Lake Erie is very definitely (now) part of the Seaway. Between Duluth or Chicago and the Atlantic ocean there are several sets of rapids and one major falls that prevent navigation while allowing water to travel. For a ship to travel from Duluth or Chicago to Riviere du Loup or the Atlantic, that ship must traverse Lakes Michigan or Superior, then lake Huron, then Lake Erie, then (and here is the tricky part for your roommate), Lake Ontario which is fed from Lake Erie by the Niagara River going over the Falls. There are only two ways to travel by boat from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario, the New York Canal system (which cannot handle large freighters) or the Welland Canal. Now, the Welland Canal was initially created prior to the creation of the Seaway, but according the the Seaway agency (the one that sets tolls and things) the Welland Canal is now definitely part of the [Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System](http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/news/tolls_schedule.html). If he needs something geared down to his ability to understand, [this easy to understand .pdf](http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/pdf/tommy_trent_abc.pdf) explains it in words that children can grasp. (If he is simply objecting to the words “St. Lawrence Seaway” in conjunction with the Welland Canal, he has a tiny little point (the system includes the words “Great Lakes” in the name and the St. Lawrence River is at the opposite end of Lake Ontario from the rest of the Great Lakes). If he is claiming that the overall system does not include the waters that pass through the Niagara River, he is simply deluded. I suppose we can credit him with recognizing that no ships actually go over the Falls, but that is why there are two systems of canals that have been built with the express purpose of carrying ships _around_ the falls to go between the two lakes that are connected by the river on which the falls sit.) ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/63 "2006-05-11T04:37:28Z")
[QUOTE=Crotalus] I just read a book on shark attacks called Close To Shore, by Michael Capuzzo, which mentioned attacks by a bull shark in the Mississippi River in Illinois. [Apparently](http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/exclusives/if2105_IllinoisShark/), they have been caught there more than once. [/QUOTE] The last line of that article mentions that… “Dams now prevent sharks from entering Illinois.” Frankly I think that the damns themselves aren’t to blame. The problem is really stingy lockmasters that refuse to lock through those Bull Sharks. The midwest has a long history of intolerance in this area, and this is just one manifestation. Ignorance breeds fear. Don’t even get me started on the Illinois tollway system and its unfairness to amphibious river life. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/64 "2006-05-11T13:16:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ass For A Hat] Don’t even get me started on the Illinois tollway system and its unfairness to amphibious river life. [/QUOTE] That’s just the thing, most sharks don’t have the toll money. They just pull up, regurgitate a license plate or a knights helmet into the toll basket and sit there looking confused. Plus they drive like they’re from Wisconsin… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/65 "2006-05-11T14:14:07Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] That’s just the thing, most sharks don’t have the toll money. They just pull up, regurgitate a license plate or a knights helmet into the toll basket and sit there looking confused. [/QUOTE] No, no, it really is because they’re sharks. Whenever I pull up and puke into the basket, the operator just waves me right through. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/66 "2006-05-11T14:19:52Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] No, no, it really is because they’re sharks. Whenever I pull up and puke into the basket, the operator just waves me right through. [/QUOTE] And IPass is nothing but 21st century Jim Crow. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/67 "2006-05-11T14:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=Ass For A Hat] And IPass is nothing but 21st century Jim Crow. [/QUOTE] Well I like IPass, because then when you drive through the toll, someone else is electronically manipulated to puke somewhere down in Springfield and I don’t have to slow down. Hopefully they’re puking directly on Gov. Blagojevich. ---
**Author:** ![Endless\_Flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e480ec/32.png) [@Endless\_Flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Endless_Flight)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/68 "2006-05-11T15:01:28Z")
[QUOTE=The Chao Goes Mu] I think we’re going to need a bigger boat. Yup. No truer words have ever been spoken. I react that way and I’ve _never_ gone for a swim in the ocean. To me, the concept of swimming in the ocean is tantamount to tieing me up with a rope, throwing me off of a boat and using me as chum. Not gonna happen. [/QUOTE] I remember when I was younger, my family and I would go boating on Lake Wawasee in Indiana. One day my mom was skiing behind the boat, and let go of the rope. She settled down a bit in the water and the back of her ski hit something. She pulled her feet up quick, and never figured out what it was. We think it might have been a sandbar, since the lake has a few of those around the middle section. I decided to never learn how to ski much after that. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/69 "2006-05-11T21:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] I have no idea what your roommate _thinks_ he is claiming, but the Welland Canal (which connects Lake Ontario with the “Upper Lakes” via Lake Erie is very definitely (now) part of the Seaway. Between Duluth or Chicago and the Atlantic ocean there are several sets of rapids and one major falls that prevent navigation while allowing water to travel. For a ship to travel from Duluth or Chicago to Riviere du Loup or the Atlantic, that ship must traverse Lakes Michigan or Superior, then lake Huron, then Lake Erie, then (and here is the tricky part for your roommate), Lake Ontario which is fed from Lake Erie by the Niagara River going over the Falls. There are only two ways to travel by boat from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario, the New York Canal system (which cannot handle large freighters) or the Welland Canal. Now, the Welland Canal was initially created prior to the creation of the Seaway, but according the the Seaway agency (the one that sets tolls and things) the Welland Canal is now definitely part of the [Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System](http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/news/tolls_schedule.html). If he needs something geared down to his ability to understand, [this easy to understand .pdf](http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/pdf/tommy_trent_abc.pdf) explains it in words that children can grasp. [/QUOTE] Thank, you **Tomndebb** for that. I’ll call him over when he comes home and show him your post and cites. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/70 "2006-05-11T21:54:33Z")
Let’s just pretend that comma was one more word over, shall we? :o ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/71 "2006-05-11T22:13:50Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] No, no, it really is because they’re sharks. Whenever I pull up and puke into the basket, the operator just waves me right through. [/QUOTE] Nope. They wave you through cause you drive like you’re from Philly. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/72 "2006-05-11T22:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > There are only two ways to travel by boat from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario, the New York Canal system (which cannot handle large freighters) or the Welland Canal. Nah, there’s at least three. You could also loop back up to Lake Michigan, down (formerly up) the Chicago River and the Sanitary Canal into the Mississippi, loop around Florida, back up the eastern seaboard, and up the St. Lawrence River/Seaway. Used to be you could also use the Ohio-Erie Canal (not part of the NY Canal system, note), but that’s long been unmaintained, and most of it is just muddy ditches any more. Of course, there’s also a number of possibilities for the New Orleans - St. Lawrence leg of the trip, but we’ll ignore those. Or if it’s a really, really tiny boat, you could also, once you were in the Mighty Mississip, head up the Missouri, through the Yellowstone, up to Lake Isa, and down the other side to ultimately come out on the Snake River, and then take the waterway of your choice (Panama Canal, Straights of Magellan, Arctic Sea, or circumnavigation) to get back to St. Lawrence. But the bit in the immediate vicinity of Lake Isa is somewhat on the tight side; you’d need a centimeter or so below the water line, and two or three wide, for it to be navigable. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/73 "2006-05-11T23:47:21Z")
Okay, I showed my roomate the post and apparently he was talking about the shark converstation about how they’d have to navigate N.F.s in order to get into the great lakes area. What, it seems, he was saying was that they didn’t need to nessasarily have to traverse the Falls but could just use the canal. He didn’t have any dispute about NF being a part of the SLW…it was just over the fact that people were implying that the sharks would have go through the falls to get to the great lakes. Idle Thoughts who is dictating what his roomate is saying right now and who has no idea what’s going on anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/74 "2006-05-12T03:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Shave the whales!! [/QUOTE] That _will_ be my next bumper sticker. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/75 "2006-05-12T04:07:01Z")
Gee, **Chronos** , you forgot the Ohio River/Tombigbee system that allows you to bypass N’awlins, completely, to say nothing of the Lake Nipigon and Lake Mojikit diversion of the Ogoki River from the Albany River watershed (provided you can get past the lockless dams that were used to reverse the watershed). ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/76 "2006-05-12T06:41:59Z")
Our true environmental concerns are the zebra mussel and gobe. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/77 "2006-05-12T13:37:08Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] Our true environmental concerns are the zebra mussel and gobe. [/QUOTE] This may be true in the long term, although fishermen (and women) are finding that walleye and smallmouth bass are adapting quite quickly to the goby as a foodsource, and that this may have been made possible by the zebra mussels filtering the water sufficently to allow them to see forage on the bottom. It remains to be seen if the salmonids will adapt as well, as they traditionally do not adjust feeding habits as easily as the others. I do know that for Lake Michigan that Asian (silver or big head) carp are rapidly moving down the Illinois river and the gate to block them hasn’t been finished yet (another kudos to our Gov., this time for cutting DNR funding). Although the Asian carp is a topwater filter feeder, and may not find sufficient food due to the zebra mussel’s complete filtration. Really nobody knows the ultimate impact of an invading species until it’s far too late. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/78 "2006-05-12T15:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=AnabolicDoberman] Wait a minute I did not realize the falls were in the way. What is the point of the waterway then? Ships can’t make it past the falls, I bet a shark could though…no bones to break in the fall. [/QUOTE] So is it the cartilage that allows sharks to defy gravity? If they could just make ships out of the stuff, then they could access Lake Erie and the rest of the great lakes. I’m glad no one wasted time digging a canal or anything! People were damned stupid building the St. Lawrence before solving the falls problem. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/79 "2006-08-02T17:44:47Z")
Not to needlessly bump, but I found this article [here](http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/exclusives/if2105_IllinoisShark/) that may suggest, however improbable, that there could have been sharks in the great lakes at some point. It seems that back in the early part of the 20th century a bull shark was caught from the Mississippi river at Alton Illinois. Theoretically, the shark could have entered the Mississippi, swam up to the Illinois River, which was connected via the Illinois and Michigan Canal to the Chicago River, which connects to Lake Michigan. Assuming that none of the dams that are in place currently were there at the time, a shark could have swam into Lake Michigan, however briefly. In no way does it suggest that there was ever a sizable or viable population, or that it ever occured even once, but it remains that it could have. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075/80 "2006-08-02T21:56:19Z")
[QUOTE=The Chao Goes Mu] I blame Jaws for my irrational fear, btw. [/QUOTE] Yeah, you and Mel Gibson. 😉 [QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] I just pray I don’t see the day of the Asian Carp arrive in my waters!!! [/quote] There’s no need to fear because you now have the American Commercial Fisherman fighting for you and if anybody knows how to wipe out a species he does: > [@All Things Considered 7/12/06](#): > > [Asian Carp: Can't Beat Them? Eat Them : NPR](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5542199) > “We used to fish for Buffalo and stuff, and we’d catch these [carp] accidentally,” says commercial fisherman Orion Briney. He says bighead Asian carp began filling his nets several years ago and quickly cut into his ability to make a living. > > So the third-generation fisherman changed course. And now the carp are Briney’s bread and butter: He focuses his fishing on Asian carp. > > The fish weigh at least 15-to-25 pounds each, and some are much larger. They fetch about 14 cents a pound. That’s not a lot, but Briney says the huge volume of carp he catches more than makes up for the low price-per-pound. Since he started fishing for carp, Briney says he’s doubled his income. > > Briney used to think carp were ugly. “But now, I think they look pretty good,” he says, laughing, noting that they bring “about $4 a fish.” > > … > > On a recent day, Briney and his stepson, Jeremy Fisher, took in about 10,000 to 12,000 pounds of Asian carp from the Illinois River. Their catch ended up at Schafer Fisheries, a processing plant in Thomson, Ill. > > Plant owner Mike Schafer has spent the last seven years developing a market for Asian carp. He says his company sells more than 2 million pounds each year – mostly in Asian-American communities in California, New York and Chicago. > > The carp now account for 20-30 percent of Schafer’s business. He hopes that a new flash freezer he invested in will help him start selling to China and other Asian markets. the question now is: how long before the Asian Carp gets protected to save American jobs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-sharks-in-the-great-lakes/355075.md?page=5)