# Are there societies where sexual abuse is rare, how do they do that **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030 "2013-05-10T21:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/21 "2013-05-11T14:00:45Z")
To answer the OP, I think “female empowerment” is only one part of creating a society where rape doesn’t exist. Just because offenders may only represent 5-10% of the population doesn’t mean the 90-95% of the rest of population don’t in some way enable the others. I think our culture encourages men to push boundaries while it encourages women to confine themselves. Dominance is promoted as a masculine trait while submissiveness and fraility are promoted as feminine ones. Sex for men is practically treated like a medical necessity–not even the most religious families seriously tells their sons to abstain until marriage–while women are routinely warned against having too much sex. What you get from this are men who define their self-worth by how well they dominate others and by how much sex they can procure. Add in dysfunctional views toward women and low risk aversion, and you may have a rapist on your hands. I could imagine that a society that takes a more egalitarian view towards women and men–not just with sex, but with stereotypical gender traits–probably wouldn’t have a big problem with rape. We are not there yet, though. We should not be surprised that rape exists in places where there is a big power differential between men and women. As long as we celebrate aggressive “tough guys” above men who are stereotypically more “beta”, rapists will continue to derive a lot of sexual satisfaction in being aggressive and tough. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/22 "2013-05-11T14:15:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Are you a criminologist? Or a psychologist who has spent some time researching the subject of rape? Have you interviewed rapists? Do you even know any rapists? Have you been raped before? These are questions I’ve asked people before in these kinds of discussions, and I’ve never received a yes response, and yet the matter-of-factness keeps a-coming. > > I just wonder why any of us are supposed to put any weight in your opinions. There are trained professionals out there that have done a lot of work in this subject and have found that rape is often driven by more than just lust. Not all rape is the same so you can’t reduce all of these acts to the same motivation. > > I think what is overlooked in these “its power vs its sex” debates is that for some people, forcing themselves on someone using violence or some other means _is_ a turn on. They get something out of nonconsensual sex that they can’t get out of consensual sex. Which means all the brothels and hot willing sex partners in the world may not satisfy some rapist’s cravings for domination. And really that is what “rape is about power, not sex” is getting at. Because he’s making rational arguments while the other side isn’t. You aren’t helping with an appeal to authority. As for your claim, first off, if it’s about getting off, it’s still primarily about sex. Second, the most common form of rape is date rape, which is specifically about sex. There might be some rape that is about power (like, say, prison rape often is), but it’s far from the norm. And if you want to allege that experts say rape is about power, I propose you bring citations rather than accusing someone else of not having them. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/23 "2013-05-11T14:22:32Z")
> [@colander](#): > > You are absolutely right to be skeptical. For Japan, anyway, this is at least partially an artifact of the unusually low reporting rates seen in Japanese sex assault victims. Hot off the presses, from the latest issue of the International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology, I give you [Decisions Not to Report Sexual Assault: A Comparative Study among Women Living in Japan Who Are Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and English-Speaking](http://ijo.sagepub.com/content/45/3/278.short). Bolding is mine. > > These results will come as little surprise to anyone with even a passing familiarity with Japanese culture, which has a tendency to strongly encourage the practice of “going along to get along” to a much greater extent than is seen in most Western societies. > > To some extent, an increase sexual assault reported is probably actually correlated with a decrease in rates of sexual assault commission, not an increase. While I’m sure that plays a role, the rape of reported rape in the US is 27.3 per 100k while in Japan it is 1.0. And in the US something like 50-90% of rapes are not reported, so that number is 2-10x bigger. So unless Japan’s rate of reporting is 27x more lax than ours (which would mean something like 99% of rapes there are not reported) it seems Japan has far fewer rapes. Greece also has far fewer reported rapes than the UK. > **[Rape statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics)** > > Statistics on rape and other acts of sexual assault are commonly available in industrialized countries, and have become better documented throughout the world. Inconsistent definitions of rape, different rates of reporting, recording, prosecution and conviction for rape can create controversial statistical disparities, and lead to accusations that many rape statistics are unreliable or misleading. > In some jurisdictions, male and female rape is the only form of rape counted in the statistics. ... In India the reported rate is only 1.8, but I’m sure the actual rate is many many times that, the impression I get is that the public sexual assaults there are drawing attention to the fact that there are many more that never get reported. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/24 "2013-05-11T14:24:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > To answer the OP, I think “female empowerment” is only one part of creating a society where rape doesn’t exist. > > Just because offenders may only represent 5-10% of the population doesn’t mean the 90-95% of the rest of population don’t in some way enable the others. I think our culture encourages men to push boundaries while it encourages women to confine themselves. Dominance is promoted as a masculine trait while submissiveness and fraility are promoted as feminine ones. Sex for men is practically treated like a medical necessity–not even the most religious families seriously tells their sons to abstain until marriage–while women are routinely warned against having too much sex. What you get from this are men who define their self-worth by how well they dominate others and by how much sex they can procure. Add in dysfunctional views toward women and low risk aversion, and you may have a rapist on your hands. > > I could imagine that a society that takes a more egalitarian view towards women and men–not just with sex, but with stereotypical gender traits–probably wouldn’t have a big problem with rape. We are not there yet, though. We should not be surprised that rape exists in places where there is a big power differential between men and women. As long as we celebrate aggressive “tough guys” above men who are stereotypically more “beta”, rapists will continue to derive a lot of sexual satisfaction in being aggressive and tough. I don’t know about that. Japanese attitudes about gender and tastes in pornography (Japanese porn tends to be very BDSM oriented) are less egalitarian than what you’d find in places like the US or UK, but their rates of sexual assault (reported to police) are 20-30x lower. And even though there may be fewer reports, I have heard from people in Japan that unlike the US or the UK, women feel more comfortable walking around at night in large cities. So there must be some cultural aspect to the fact that people do not fear their fellow citizens the same way in Japan, which can’t be totally due to denial. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/25 "2013-05-11T14:37:50Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > While I’m sure that plays a role, the rape of reported rape in the US is 27.3 per 100k while in Japan it is 1.0. And in the US something like 50-90% of rapes are not reported, so that number is 2-10x bigger. So unless Japan’s rate of reporting is 27x more lax than ours (which would mean something like 99% of rapes there are not reported) it seems Japan has far fewer rapes. And it wouldn’t surprise me if Japan is that much more lax. I’m not very familiar with Japan, but it strikes me as a very male-dominated culture that puts stuff like “family honor” and “virginal purity” on a pedestal. I would not expect women to feel comfortable enough to openly discuss sexual assaults in such a culture. In contrast, rape threat has been on Americans’ collective consciousness since its very beginning. Remember how we read “To Kill a Mockingbird” back in middle school? We talk about rape much more than other cultures do, which means victims are more likely to come forward as well as liars looking to put the screws to someone. So no, 27X more “lax” isn’t that surprising at all. Not to me. There’s another reason Japan doesn’t strike me as a place where rape is uncommon. Rape-free cultures don’t produce stories like this: [High rates of subway sexual harassent in Japan and Korea](http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/2009/08/high-rates-of-subway-sexual-harassment-in-korea-and-japan/). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/26 "2013-05-11T15:08:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because he’s making rational arguments while the other side isn’t. You aren’t helping with an appeal to authority. If we were talking about quantum mechanics and he was spouting off ideas that contradicted leaders in the field, folks would be assailing him with “cite” if not outright booing him off the stage. Same with anything related to medicine, anything related to engineering, and anything related to mental illness. It is only with rape that we have armchair experts who feel qualified to tell us what it’s _really_ all about. As if those who have actually dedicated their lives to studying the motivations behind rape can’t possibly no more about it. The irony is that **Der Trihs** hates being thought of as a potential rapist. And yet he routinely speaks as though he is an authority on rape psychology. He doesn’t seem to appreciate that by conflating normal male sexual desire with the desires of rapists, he makes it that much easier for women to see _him_ as a potential rapist. His arrogance is hurting his own cause. > [@](#): > > As for your claim, first off, if it’s about getting off, it’s still primarily about sex. Second, the most common form of rape is date rape, which is specifically about sex. It’s obvious that it involves sex, otherwise it wouldn’t be rape. Bravo for lending credence to the idea that the “it’s just sex” side of the discussion can’t think any deeper on this subject than a penis entering a vagina. > [@](#): > > And if you want to allege that experts say rape is about power, I propose you bring citations rather than accusing someone else of not having them. According to experts, rape is about multiple things. Not just power, not just sex. Your ignorance of this is not my problem, but since this information is readily available on pubmed, I have no problems spoon feeding it to anyone willing to open up their maws. Here are but two articles with interesting abstracts. [Are all perpetrators alike? Comparing risk factors for sexual coercion and aggression.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20693517) > [@](#): > > The present study developed and contrasted predictive models of male nonphysical sexual coercion (e.g., verbal pressure or manipulation) and physical sexual aggression (e.g., incapacitation, physical force, or threats) using a sample of 369 incarcerated males to identify shared and unique risk factors for each form of sexual perpetration. Results revealed a set of shared risk characteristics that predisposed individuals to both sexual coercion and aggression ( **i.e., belief in rape myths, sexual promiscuity, aggressive tendencies, and empathic deficits** Notice the bit about sexual promiscuity? You should. The idea that rapists rape because they aren’t getting enough is a myth that should have died out in the 1800’s. Here’s another. Again, this shit is so easy to find it’s ridiculous. [The sexual profile of rapists in Singapore.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11858209) > [@](#): > > Significantly more rapists masturbated at least once a month and were exposed to pornography within six months before the offence when compared to non-violent controls. Violent controls did not differ significantly from rapists in any aspect of the sexual history. **The greater similarity between rapists and violent controls lends support to the concept of rape as a violent rather than sexual offence.** A subgroup of 17 ‘hypersexual’ rapists were identified who were either having sex or masturbating very frequently but had still resorted to rape. **Compared to the other 46 rapists, the ‘hypersexual’ rapists were more likely to have fantasised predominantly about rape or bondage and to cite domination, aggression or hostility as reasons for committing rape, suggesting an even stronger element of power and aggression than in their less sexually active counterparts.** But **Ders** keeps saying it’s all about sex, so I guess these researchers just interviewed the wrong guys, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/27 "2013-05-11T15:16:00Z")
Apparently in Singapore masturbating more than once a month and viewing pornography within 6 months are considered risk factors for being a sex criminal. Hmmmmmmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/28 "2013-05-11T15:31:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t know about that. Japanese attitudes about gender and tastes in pornography (Japanese porn tends to be very BDSM oriented) are less egalitarian than what you’d find in places like the US or UK, but their rates of sexual assault (reported to police) are 20-30x lower. And even though there may be fewer reports, I have heard from people in Japan that unlike the US or the UK, women feel more comfortable walking around at night in large cities. So there must be some cultural aspect to the fact that people do not fear their fellow citizens the same way in Japan, which can’t be totally due to denial. I’m not trying to be snarky but the internet is just a finger away. You haven’t heard of women being sexually harrassed like crazy in Japan? They actually have women-only [subway cars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car) in that country because the groping problem is so bad. Now imagine something like that in the States. The outcry on both sides would likely be huge. In Japan, they appear to deal with sexual aggressiveness by creating detours around it. Here, we launch “take back the night” campaigns and plaster up advertisements about the importance of reporting sexual assault. If you still believe Japan might be some rape-free utiopia, read the following: [http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951029&slug=2149452](http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951029&slug=2149452) > [@](#): > > Masaomi Kaneko, a Tokyo city official, says little progress appears to have been made since he opened a hotline for female workers in 1989 - and was astounded at what he found. > > “There was sexual harassment everywhere. **There were also lots of office rapes** ,” he said. “I learned from these interviews that the people doing these things were not unusual men. They were normal men who loved their wives and children.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/29 "2013-05-11T15:34:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Apparently in Singapore masturbating more than once a month and viewing pornography within 6 months are considered risk factors for being a sex criminal. Hmmmmmmmmm. The authors didn’t call these risk factors. They just were more likely to report doing these things than non-rapists. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/30 "2013-05-11T16:03:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > According to experts, rape is about multiple things. Not just power, not just sex. So is consensual sex. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Notice the bit about sexual promiscuity? You should. The idea that rapists rape because they aren’t getting enough is a myth that should have died out in the 1800’s. Not that I disagree with anything you say, but why draw a relationship between an interest in a variety of sexual partners and “getting enough”? I would imagine a promiscuous male or female would not feel like they are getting enough all the time. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/31 "2013-05-11T16:33:38Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > So is consensual sex. Yeah, but consensual sex is not what we’re talking about right now. And consensual sex is lawful so we have no reason to intervene against it. So what is your point? By definition, consensual sex is different from rape. > [@](#): > > Not that I disagree with anything you say, but why draw a relationship between an interest in a variety of sexual partners and “getting enough”? I would imagine a promiscuous male or female would not feel like they are getting enough all the time. Even if we posit that a promiscuous person has greater “needs” than a non-sexual person and thus is more likely to feel deprived, there is still no evidence (that I can find) that rapists as a group are morely to feel sexually deprived than non-rapists. We can infer that for some rapists (like prisoners) but certainly not ones who have active sex lives. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/32 "2013-05-11T17:28:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’m not trying to be snarky but the internet is just a finger away. You haven’t heard of women being sexually harrassed like crazy in Japan? They actually have women-only [subway cars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car) in that country because the groping problem is so bad. Now imagine something like that in the States. The outcry on both sides would likely be huge. In Japan, they appear to deal with sexual aggressiveness by creating detours around it. Here, we launch “take back the night” campaigns and plaster up advertisements about the importance of reporting sexual assault. > > If you still believe Japan might be some rape-free utiopia, read the following: > > [http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951029&slug=2149452](http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951029&slug=2149452) Thanks for that article. I guess I’m wrong about Japan. Are there truly cultures where sexual abuse is rare? It seems more common in Japan than in the US (at least child sexual abuse of women and sexual harassment are) according to that article. > [@](#): > > The scope of the problem has only recently come to light. New studies show as many as three-fourths of women in Japan report having been sexually harassed, compared to about half in the United States. > What’s more, a survey by Osaka’s Independent Feminine Lifecycle Research Institute showed that one-third of Japanese women were victims of sexual abuse as children. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/33 "2013-05-11T17:43:49Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If you were to go by rape statistics women in Columbia are vastly better off than women in Sweden and women in Saudi Arabia are vastly better off than women in the UK and women are twice as likely to get raped in Canada as in the US. > > In short, those stats are virtually useless. Point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/34 "2013-05-11T18:18:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yeah, but consensual sex is not what we’re talking about right now. And consensual sex is lawful so we have no reason to intervene against it. So what is your point? By definition, consensual sex is different from rape. I just find it interesting that so much effort is spent on arguing the motivations of events of unwanted sexual context, yet people uniformly have no trouble admitting there are a variety of motivations going into any particular consensual act of sexual contact. Due to that admittedly nonscientific observation, it might be useful for a person who is fixated on one side of a political debate versus another to be able to draw the analogy, and thus gain an understanding of the science. But probably not. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Even if we posit that a promiscuous person has greater “needs” than a non-sexual person and thus is more likely to feel deprived, there is still no evidence (that I can find) that rapists as a group are morely to feel sexually deprived than non-rapists. We can infer that for some rapists (like prisoners) but certainly not ones who have active sex lives. It’s completely unimportant whether rapists feel sexually deprived relative to anybody. It only matters whether they have the ability to conceive of physical coercion as a viable option in order to have sexual contact. It’s a separate argument as to whether people who are more and less promiscuous feel more and less sexual deprivation. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/35 "2013-05-11T19:15:23Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I just find it interesting that so much effort is spent on arguing the motivations of events of unwanted sexual context, yet people uniformly have no trouble admitting there are a variety of motivations going into any particular consensual act of sexual contact. I don’t get it. Why is it interesting? The motivations behind lawful behavior are generally going to be different from their anti-social counterparts. For instance, thieves aren’t all driven by desperate consumerism, though a lot of them are. Many simply get off on the thrill. Or they are kleptomanics who just can’t stop their urges. People who play violent video games do so because it’s fun. But I don’t think the vast majority of people who end up being sent to prison for murder and violent crimes are there because they were looking for fun. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/36 "2013-05-11T19:19:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So there must be some cultural aspect to the fact that people do not fear their fellow citizens the same way in Japan, which can’t be totally due to denial. Violent stranger assaults may very well be less common in Japan than they are in the west. _Nonviolent_ sexual assaults, however, are routine enough that many Japanese don’t really think of them as assaults _per se_. Official reporting rates for these events are quite low, and most victims reporting feeling very reluctant to call attention to themselves or their assailants when it happens. During my first year of Japanese instruction, our instructor, an animated young Japanese woman in perhaps her late twenties, gave a lesson on language for everyday living. That day’s lesson was focused on trains and buses. Somehow, she got around to telling us about _chikan_, public gropers particularly common on and around Tokyo public transit. “[They touch your buttocks or groin in crowded trains.]” was, if I recall, the phrasing she used. Frowning vaguely, she went on to relate to us that when she was younger, she would routinely be fondled by strangers _several times in a typical week_. Then she went into ticket-buying practice drills. The impression that I got was that she understood that her anecdote would be rather surprising to her American students, but she didn’t really give it any more emphasis in the lesson than you would expect her to give to, say, an explanation of how Japanese radishes are different from western ones. To her, it was just another “cultural difference” that she thought we might like to be aware of if we ever decided to visit Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/37 "2013-05-11T20:52:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It is only with rape that we have armchair experts who feel qualified to tell us what it’s _really_ all about. As if those who have actually dedicated their lives to studying the motivations behind rape can’t possibly no more about it. They _also_ have a history of lying and deluding themselves on the matter. It’s like studies comparing “races”; when someone produces a study claims that blacks are less intelligent are you going to just nod your head and say “what do you know, the racists were right all along”? > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The irony is that **Der Trihs** hates being thought of as a potential rapist. And yet he routinely speaks as though he is an authority on rape psychology. He doesn’t seem to appreciate that by conflating normal male sexual desire with the desires of rapists, he makes it that much easier for women to see _him_ as a potential rapist. No, it’s the opposite. Rapists are not some separate species. And part of the point of the whole “rape is about power” mythos is portraying men in general as all having little or no motivations beyond the desire to dominate. To quote yourself: > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Just because offenders may only represent 5-10% of the population doesn’t mean the 90-95% of the rest of population don’t in some way enable the others. I think our culture encourages men to push boundaries while it encourages women to confine themselves. Dominance is promoted as a masculine trait while submissiveness and fraility are promoted as feminine ones. Sex for men is practically treated like a medical necessity–not even the most religious families seriously tells their sons to abstain until marriage–while women are routinely warned against having too much sex. What you get from this are men who define their self-worth by how well they dominate others and by how much sex they can procure. “Rape is about power” = “male sexuality in general is about power” = “men are either all rapists or wannabee rapists”. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [The sexual profile of rapists in Singapore.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11858209) > > > [@](#): > > > > Significantly more rapists masturbated at least once a month and were exposed to pornography within six months before the offence when compared to non-violent controls. Violent controls did not differ significantly from rapists in any aspect of the sexual history. The greater similarity between rapists and violent controls lends support to the concept of rape as a violent rather than sexual offence. A subgroup of 17 ‘hypersexual’ rapists were identified who were either having sex or masturbating very frequently but had still resorted to rape. Compared to the other 46 rapists, the ‘hypersexual’ rapists were more likely to have fantasised predominantly about rape or bondage and to cite domination, aggression or hostility as reasons for committing rape, suggesting an even stronger element of power and aggression than in their less sexually active counterparts. > > But **Ders** keeps saying it’s all about sex, so I guess these researchers just interviewed the wrong guys, huh? Or they just made the whole thing up. Seriously, that’s one of the silliest claims I’ve seen about sex in years. Masturbating more than once a month or seeing porn within 6 months makes you “hyper sexual”? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Aizle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Aizle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aizle)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/38 "2013-05-11T21:08:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Indeed. We’ve really lost touch with our biblical values. Monogamy, especially with Men is a relatively recent invention. Throughout history polygamy has been quite common in many societies. Everything from harems to courtesans to mistresses. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/39 "2013-05-11T21:53:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There’s another reason Japan doesn’t strike me as a place where rape is uncommon. Rape-free cultures don’t produce stories like this: [High rates of subway sexual harassent in Japan and Korea](http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/2009/08/high-rates-of-subway-sexual-harassment-in-korea-and-japan/). They also don’t produce video games where the goal is to molest women on subways and then rape them, like [RapeLay](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay), or manga in which the hero rapes women to punish them for their sins, like [Rapeman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rapeman). Then there are the [vending machines](http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.asp) selling schoolgirl’s used panties. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030/40 "2013-05-11T22:44:47Z")
> [@Aizle](#): > > Monogamy, especially with Men is a relatively recent invention. Throughout history polygamy has been quite common in many societies. Everything from harems to courtesans to mistresses. I was more referring to things like Deuteronomy 22:28 which mandate rapists marry their victims. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-societies-where-sexual-abuse-is-rare-how-do-they-do-that/658030.md?page=3)