# Are there soldiers who have never handled a firearm once during their military career? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637 "2012-10-23T17:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/21 "2012-10-23T23:35:31Z")
> [@congodwarf](#): > > Of course my mother played the flute and piccolo and my father played the clarinet - both members of the Army Band so that might have had something to do with it. 😃 Take it from me – if you are in a combat zone, that clarinet is supplemented by a rifle slung over the shoulder. In Vietnam, we were not allowed off base without a weapon and amo, no matter what instrument we played. “But Sarge! I don’t need a weapon! I have both a flute _and_ a piccolo!” ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/22 "2012-10-24T00:47:37Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > A few years ago, I read a blog post by a former petty officer who served for 8 years (if I recall correctly) in the US Navy during the 1980s as an electronics specialist. He wrote that, with the exception of basic training, he never fired a handgun in his military career and never even held one in his hand. > > Would this still be possible today? One would expect that even soldiers who serve in a support role would be required to practise on a firing range at least every 6 months or so. > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > By firearm I meant this: > > [Firearm - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) > > _Soldier_ stands for any member of the [armed forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces). Even in the most expanded use of the term, it applies only to land-based fighting troops. Sailors are never, ever called soldiers. > [@Kevbo](#): > > Military use of firearms is very different from police use. Police need to keep the guns put away until very nearly the point of shooting, so drawing the weapon and quickly getting on target are important, and that takes practice. Military are perfectly fine with walking around with gun drawn, practice “spray and pray” suppression fire, and accept collateral casualties as the cost of conducting warfare. There are rules of engagement, but nothing near what the police accept. I guarantee you that “spray and pray” was never an acceptable practice. “One shot, one kill” is drilled into you from day one. > [@KneadToKnow](#): > > And Guardsmen. Not sure where you got this idea, but the Army National Guard’s members are soldiers. The Air Guard consists of airmen, of course. Need I remind you that without these soldiers, there’d [be no America](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States#History). ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/23 "2012-10-24T01:18:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > My brother. > > A hiking accident when he was 18 caused a C-6 spinal injury that left him almost completely paralyzed from the neck down. Despite this, he enlisted in the IDF and was eventually commissioned as a naval officer, without actually going through any form of basic training. As he can’t really use his fingers (he can pick up objects by manipulating his wrists, but he can’t generate nearly enough pressure to pull a trigger), he’s never fired a weapon, although some naval commando friends of his once took him to a firing range, held a rifle to his soldier and pressed his forefinger to the trigger, just so he’d feel what it was like. > > Of course, he’s an exceptional case. Kol haKavod. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/24 "2012-10-24T01:45:35Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > By firearm I meant this: > > [Firearm - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) > > _Soldier_ stands for any member of the [armed forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces). Sorry that does not work. But to answer your question every soldier has to qualify with their weapon. They start in basic training and it continues throughout their career. By regulation you have to qualify with your assigned weapon twice a year and once for reserves. Except chaplains. > [@Alessan](#): > > “Soldier”, with a capital “S”, can refer to members of the U.S. Army. However, “soldier”, small “s”, is an English-language word to which the U.S. does not hold exclusive rights, and can refer to any organized fighting man or woman. Thus, it would be perfectly legitimate to refer to a Marine as a soldier, as well as an Air Force servicemember, a National Guardsman, a Navy SEAL or a Blackwater mercenary. If he’s wearing a uniform and trying to kill you, he’s a soldier. Not in US English it doesn’t. Soldier as a noun is exclusive to the army. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Even in the most expanded use of the term, it applies only to land-based fighting troops. Sailors are never, ever called soldiers. > > I guarantee you that “spray and pray” was never an acceptable practice. “One shot, one kill” is drilled into you from day one. > > Not sure where you got this idea, but the Army National Guard’s members are soldiers. The Air Guard consists of airmen, of course. Need I remind you that without these soldiers, there’d [be no America](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States#History). I’m in the National Guard. My uniform does not say guard. It says U.S. Army. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/25 "2012-10-24T18:35:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Once, while we were driving our submarine up to the North Pole, I was called up to the sail, where they handed me a shotgun and told me to see if I could hit the ocean. Once I had successfully shot the ocean twice, I was sent back down to the mess deck, where the PN marked on my service record that I was “qualified” on the shotgun. This is the funniest thing I’ve read all day! How did you verify your hits on the ocean? And did you kill it? (And I hope you didn’t try for a head shot, you know—you’re supposed to shoot at the center-of-mass.) ( Also, I had no idea that submarines keep shotguns on board. I would have expected M-16 assault rifles or something similar… Ya know, like _real_ soldiers carry. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/26 "2012-10-24T18:49:55Z")
I don’t know much about submarines, but I would imagine a shotgun would be significantly less likely to puncture the hull if fired inside. Holes in the boat can be notably detremental to the morale of the crew, so I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/27 "2012-10-24T20:39:30Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I don’t know much about submarines, but I would imagine a shotgun would be significantly less likely to puncture the hull if fired inside. Holes in the boat can be notably detremental to the morale of the crew, so I’ve heard. Morale is pretty far down the priority list if you’ve got holes in the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/28 "2012-10-24T23:04:01Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Morale is pretty far down the priority list if you’ve got holes in the boat. Huh. I heard holes in the boat were the greatest booster of morale a sailor could hope for. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/29 "2012-10-24T23:26:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not in US English it doesn’t. Soldier as a noun is exclusive to the army. What if an American is talking about a foreign military? If I’m driving through Myamnar and a bunch of guys in uniforms start pointing rifles at me, can I think of them as “soldiers” or should I first ask them whether they happen to be marines? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/30 "2012-10-25T01:07:06Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not in US English it doesn’t. Soldier as a noun is exclusive to the army. I think you’re confusing the US military’s usage with the US population’s usage. Yes, when referring to the US Marines, it’s impolite to call them soldiers, but it’s not semantically wrong. The military doesn’t decide the definition of words. Cite: The American OP and many other Americans I’ve met that have answered my “I’m a soldier” with “Oh really? What branch?” > [@Loach](#): > > I’m in the National Guard. My uniform does not say guard. It says U.S. Army. Who said it did? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/31 "2012-10-25T01:45:58Z")
Overheard conversation between my young nephew and my sister: “What’s this plane?” (pointing to a toy B-2) “Oh, that’s a soldiers’ plane.” Clearly, at least some folks do use “soldier” to refer to all of the military branches. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/32 "2012-10-25T17:27:48Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I guarantee you that “spray and pray” was never an acceptable practice. “One shot, one kill” is drilled into you from day one. So, do I understand correctly that burst fire on the M4 is only to be used when you have several enemy tightly lined up in a 7:05 to 8:10 O’clock orientation? Or is my understanding that burst fire is intended to be used mainly as suppressive fire correct? From what I recall of the footage I saw from Fahluja (no, I don’t know how to spell that) that seemed to be a lot of what was going on, and pretty well limiting the enemy to firing blindly, one-handed around building corners and such, and letting him know that if a head appeared, it was going to get perforated. If infantry starts taking fire, will they, or will they not typically start sending lead in the general direction of the bad guys as they high tail it for the nearest cover? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/33 "2012-10-25T18:02:54Z")
“Suppressive Fire” as a phrase carries a significantly different implication from “Spray and Pray.” Suppresseive fire is delivered to keep an enemy’s head down while your friends advance/relocate. Once they’re settled, they deliver suppresssive fire while you advance/relocate. Spray & pray is undisciplined and unmeditated fire in the general direction of where an enemy may or may not be. Huge difference in terms of firearms responsiblility. Spray and Pray is a big part of why modern military rifles are limited to a 3-round burst. Full automatic weapons like the M-60 and SAW are given highly specialized roles for combat, and prayer is not among the critera of their use. ETA: One Shot One Kill is more of a sniper thing, or for those circumstances where you have time to aim carefully–such as when the rest of your squad is distracting a bad guy with suppressive fire. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/34 "2012-10-25T18:12:38Z")
I was in the Air Force for ten years. Broadcast Journalist, basically a DJ for the military. I fired in Basic, and once before I went to Korea to qualify. After that, nada. I was given a weapon card in each time I was in Korea (Three all together) that in the event of the “Balloon going up” I was to present to the armory to be issued a weapon. I did have to clean that weapon before I left, and each time, I ended up paying some guy to reassemble it for me. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/35 "2012-10-25T18:14:53Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Kol haKavod. Thanks. He is quite literally the most impressive man I know. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/36 "2012-10-25T18:43:36Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I don’t feel that this is nitpicking, but it is _not_ legitimate to refer to a Marine as a soldier when referring to an individual Marine or a group or unit of Marines. > > If you are including a Marine or Marine unit into a collective ‘soldiers’ in a particular theater, or as a generic ‘soldier’ for an intellectual purpose, then ok. > > Substitute ‘Airman’ or ‘Sailor’ at will in the preceding two sentences. Oh, make no mistake, Marines _are_ soldiers. Just don’t call them that to their face! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/37 "2012-10-25T18:59:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Oh, make no mistake, Marines _are_ soldiers. Just don’t call them that to their face! > > 🙂 They’re sailors too, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/38 "2012-10-25T19:25:25Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Oh, make no mistake, Marines _are_ soldiers. Just don’t call them that to their face! > > 🙂 I take it “hired killers” is right out too? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/39 "2012-10-25T20:32:11Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > So, do I understand correctly that burst fire on the M4 is only to be used when you have several enemy tightly lined up in a 7:05 to 8:10 O’clock orientation? > > Or is my understanding that burst fire is intended to be used mainly as suppressive fire correct? From what I recall of the footage I saw from Fahluja (no, I don’t know how to spell that) that seemed to be a lot of what was going on, and pretty well limiting the enemy to firing blindly, one-handed around building corners and such, and letting him know that if a head appeared, it was going to get perforated. > > If infantry starts taking fire, will they, or will they not typically start sending lead in the general direction of the bad guys as they high tail it for the nearest cover? I don’t believe I’ve ever actually been instructed to use the burst fire option on my M-4, except during MOABs at the end of training exercise where the goal is to use up as many blank rounds in as short a period of time as possible. Suppressive fire is a task best left up to 249s and 240s, and despite sending groups of 5-10 rounds downrange at a time, they’re definitely not ‘spray and pray’ rounds that are fired blindly without a specific target. When fired upon, combat arms units (I don’t know about the infantry per se, but cavalry units don’t really have different M.O.s than infantry units) seek cover and then return fire. Blindly firing in the direction of incoming rounds without determining distance and direction is a surefire way to end up killing your buddies. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/40 "2012-10-25T20:58:16Z")
Pretty sure that once my dad got out of Basic, he didn’t touch another USAF weapon for the duration of his enlistment. His normal job was as a logistics specialist at Kelly AFB from 1969-1973, and his “combat” job as he describes it, was to basically shrinkwrap and load pallets of crap into C5 Galaxies and C-141 Starlifters. He never left the US during his enlistment either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637.md?page=3)