# Are there soldiers who have never handled a firearm once during their military career? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637 "2012-10-23T17:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/41 "2012-10-26T03:00:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I take it “hired killers” is right out too? “Jarhead,” “Leatherneck” or “Gyrene” are the preferred nomenclature, Dude. ---
**Author:** ![pudytat72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@pudytat72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pudytat72)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/42 "2012-10-26T03:32:59Z")
I was in the Air Force for 7 years (as a doctor), and never held or fired any weapon. I even managed 2 years overseas -where small arms training was a\*\* requirement\*\*. At one point in my overseas tour, someone noticed that deficiency and tried to set me up for the class. I told them: “I am terrified of guns. I don’t want to look at one, or touch one, much less try to fire one. I think I would come unglued if you made me go to that class.” I don’t know what they did, but it never came up again. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/43 "2012-10-26T03:39:09Z")
Just for the record, “ex-Marines” are not to be referred to as such. They are “always” Marines. Unless you want to fight about that distinction, in which case they will gladly oblige you. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/44 "2012-10-26T04:00:17Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Just for the record, “ex-Marines” are not to be referred to as such. They are “always” Marines. > > Unless you want to fight about that distinction, in which case they will gladly oblige you. go tell that to the collective journalists of the world. “Ex Marine” google search returns 36 million results and on the first 5 pages almost all of them are news reports of an ex marine being charged with some crime. One result is the claim that there is no such thing. Language is defined by common usage, they’ve lost this one. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/45 "2012-10-26T10:03:14Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I think you’re confusing the US military’s usage with the US population’s usage. Yes, when referring to the US Marines, it’s impolite to call them soldiers, but it’s not semantically wrong. The military doesn’t decide the definition of words. Cite: The American OP and many other Americans I’ve met that have answered my “I’m a soldier” with “Oh really? What branch?” > > Who said it did? So incorrect usage of a word is correct as long as more than one person uses it incorrectly? Sorry it doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/46 "2012-10-26T10:10:55Z")
My daughter is in the IDF. Other than basic training and some subsequent time on the range, she has not fired nor even carried a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/47 "2012-10-26T10:19:24Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > So incorrect usage of a word is correct as long as more than one person uses it incorrectly? Sorry it doesn’t work that way. The U.S. Department of Defense, or their maketing teams, doesn’t get to decide the correct usage of words. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/48 "2012-10-26T11:44:55Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Just for the record, “ex-Marines” are not to be referred to as such. They are “always” Marines. > > Unless you want to fight about that distinction, in which case they will gladly oblige you. I thought the correct term was “former” for someone who retired or got an honorable discharge, “ex” implying a dishonorable discharge? And “soldier” is a perfectly cromulent word for any non-specific military employee, in the very broadest sense. What do Marines and SEALs have in common? They’re all soldiers. Though to avoid confusion, I usually use service member - or rather, the Norwegian equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/49 "2012-10-26T13:10:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The U.S. Department of Defense, or their maketing teams, doesn’t get to decide the correct usage of words. And neither do you. To say that sailor and soldier are equivalent is ridiculous and wrong. They are totally different things. Its like saying an engineer and a architect are the same thing. I can understand the ignorance when it comes to Marines and soldiers. There is a lot of overlap in their duties although there are very distinct differences. But to use it the way the OP does is beyond ignorant. Its illogical. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/50 "2012-10-26T13:22:30Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I can understand the ignorance when it comes to Marines and soldiers. There is a lot of overlap in their duties although there are very distinct differences. But to use it the way the OP does is beyond ignorant. Its illogical. It’s not ignorance - I know what they prefer to be called. I’m just not compelled to agree with them. A marine is a soldier. He’s a soldier who travels on a ship, just as a paratrooper is a soldier who jumps out of planes, and a tanker is a soldier who rides a tank. The fact that an accident of U.S. history assigned him to a separate service has no relevance to the English language. Sailors, I’ll grant you - there has always been a different word for people who sail ships, military or not. But soldiers are soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/51 "2012-10-26T13:23:00Z")
Another question. I hear vague stories of WW2 draftees being in-processed, then declared unfit for basic training and ending up as clerks, orderlies, etc. I assume this is no longer possible. Was it even then? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/52 "2012-10-26T13:29:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And neither do you. To say that sailor and soldier are equivalent is ridiculous and wrong. They are totally different things. Its like saying an engineer and a architect are the same thing. > > I can understand the ignorance when it comes to Marines and soldiers. There is a lot of overlap in their duties although there are very distinct differences. But to use it the way the OP does is beyond ignorant. Its illogical. After reading this discussion, I acknowledge that soldier, marine, airman and sailor are really not the same at all. So my original question should have been phrased “member of the armed services” instead of just “soldier”. I probably fell victim to a false cognate from the German language: “Soldat” is usually translated into English as “soldier”, but that is obviously not entirely correct. In German, “Soldat” is (by legal definition) the term used for any military personnel serving in either the Army, the Air Force or the Navy. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/53 "2012-10-26T13:34:35Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Just for the record, “ex-Marines” are not to be referred to as such. They are “always” Marines. > > Unless you want to fight about that distinction, in which case they will gladly oblige you. This is only an artifact of their training to make them stop self-identifying as civilians and start self-identifying as Marines. All branches of the service do something similar, but the USMC cranks it up to 11. People from other branches seem to get over it after they are discharged, if not while they are still in the service. Marines as a group, not so much. In conversation with them, I generally humor them with their little peculiarities, but that is merely a courtesy on my part and is absolutely not because I fear their semper fu. The world at large is under no obligation to adhere to their meaningless distinctions that exist only due to a well-developed brainwashing program. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/54 "2012-10-26T13:37:42Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Another question. I hear vague stories of WW2 draftees being in-processed, then declared unfit for basic training and ending up as clerks, orderlies, etc. I assume this is no longer possible. Was it even then? All incoming personnel take the same physical and have to pass it. Airborne and flight physicals are more restrictive for those jobs. If you fail the physical you can’t serve. Ask any recruiter and he’ll tell you about the high percentage of potential recruits that get rejected. I believe all services have the same standards. I certainly went through processing with all branches. As far as I know in WWII that was the case as well. Being classified as 4F meant you couldn’t serve. The only difference was that the different branches ran their own physicals. Audie Murphy was rejected by the Marines for being too small before he was able to barely pass an Army physical. He was not allowed into an Airborne unit for physical reasons too. ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/55 "2012-10-26T13:38:22Z")
> [@skdo23](#): > > Chaplains, and possibly JAG attorneys, would be the most likely candidates IMHO. In fact, I believe that Chaplains are currently barred from being armed in a combat situation, but are allowed to participate in some forms of firearms training and competition for recreational purposes. However, in the past (including WWII, I believe) it was optional for Chaplains to carry weapons in combat, but I don’t think very many of them to choose to. Interesting. A friend of mine is a physician in the Reserves and was deployed twice to Iraq. Her first deployment she had nice living quarters in a trailer and a nice little medical station. Her station was along a supply route and she said they saw very little action, she just took care of routine medical stuff while she was there. Her biggest injury was a partial finger amputation that occurred whilst someone was repairing a vehicle. Yet she had to be armed every single time she left one of her outbuildings to transit to another outbuilding. How/why do they allow chaplains in a combat zone to stay unarmed when she had to be armed just to walk to the mess hall in a secure station 200 miles away from any fighting? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/56 "2012-10-26T13:45:04Z")
> [@Minnie\_Luna](#): > > Interesting. A friend of mine is a physician in the Reserves and was deployed twice to Iraq. Her first deployment she had nice living quarters in a trailer and a nice little medical station. Her station was along a supply route and she said they saw very little action, she just took care of routine medical stuff while she was there. Her biggest injury was a partial finger amputation that occurred whilst someone was repairing a vehicle. Yet she had to be armed every single time she left one of her outbuildings to transit to another outbuilding. How/why do they allow chaplains in a combat zone to stay unarmed when she had to be armed just to walk to the mess hall in a secure station 200 miles away from any fighting? The Geneva Conventions classify chaplains as non-combatants. As such, they should not directly participate in combat. The US requires chaplains to be unarmed as a result. A former student of mine enlisted as chaplain’s assistant a few years back. He carried a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/57 "2012-10-26T13:47:48Z")
> [@Minnie\_Luna](#): > > Interesting. A friend of mine is a physician in the Reserves and was deployed twice to Iraq. Her first deployment she had nice living quarters in a trailer and a nice little medical station. Her station was along a supply route and she said they saw very little action, she just took care of routine medical stuff while she was there. Her biggest injury was a partial finger amputation that occurred whilst someone was repairing a vehicle. Yet she had to be armed every single time she left one of her outbuildings to transit to another outbuilding. How/why do they allow chaplains in a combat zone to stay unarmed when she had to be armed just to walk to the mess hall in a secure station 200 miles away from any fighting? Chaplains are considered non-combatants by the Geneva Convention. Although it is not specifically prohibited by law the US takes that to mean they should not be armed. Technically if captured they are supposed to be returned and not made POWs. Of course that distiction is meaningless in the current conflict. Medical personnel carry weapons for personal protection. They can’t carry machine guns but they are usually required to carry a sidearm. The Geneva Convention defines medical personnel much differently. Although you are not allowed to shoot medics performing their duty, they are still soldiers and are treated as such including being made POWs if captured. Again a meaningless distiction when dealing with an enemy who does not care about the Geneva Convention. ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/58 "2012-10-26T14:51:21Z")
Thanks **Scumpup** and **Loach**! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/59 "2012-10-26T14:52:25Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Medical personnel carry weapons for personal protection. Not all of them. Remember Hawkeye’s speech? > [@](#): > > “I’ll carry on, carry over, carry forward, Cary Grant, cash and carry, carry me back to Old Virginia, I’ll even ‘hari-kari’ if you show me how, but I will not carry a gun!” ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637/60 "2012-10-26T15:54:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > So incorrect usage of a word is correct as long as more than one person uses it incorrectly? Sorry it doesn’t work that way. No, actually it does, for certain values of “more than one”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-soldiers-who-have-never-handled-a-firearm-once-during-their-military-career/638637.md?page=4)