# Are there special laws to deal with agitators that encourage crowds to riot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965 "2014-08-20T02:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/1 "2014-08-20T02:14:18Z")
I’ve read there were agitators who infiltrated some of the student groups in the sixties. Egging on and encouraging riots and violence. Using and manipulating the crowds to promote their own agendas. Similar people have traveled to Ferguson to inflame the situation. Are there special laws in place to deal with agitators? Above and beyond the normal laws that cover violent acts. Also, how seriously can people be charged for Molotov cocktails? Could they be charged with bomb making, attempted murder etc? Is this something that could result in decades in prison? Or is it a minor crime? I read the cops are beginning to identify the leaders and troublemakers inciting violence within the crowds. The cops will dart in and grab those people. Avoiding the need to arrest everybody. I just wondered what charges apply to agitators. > **[Some ‘agitators’ arrested in Ferguson come from across U.S. | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/missouri-ferguson-agitators/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)** > > “Agitators” stirring violence amid Ferguson protests are “a disgrace,” a state senator says. > [@](#): > > \*But all sides agree there are a select number of people – distinct from the majority of protesters – who are fomenting violence. > > “There is a dangerous dynamic in the night. It allows a small number of agitators to hide in the crowd and then attempt to create chaos,” Johnson said late Monday. > \* > “Protesters are peaceful and respectful,” he said. “Protesters don’t clash with police. … It is criminals who throw Molotov cocktails and fire shots that endangers life and property.” > > Those stirring up trouble are “fools,” said State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal. “They are a disgrace to this entire movement.” > > “What we are trying to address is the intimidation and harassment of police officers onto young people,” she told CNN. But by shooting guns, throwing Molotov cocktails, and looting stores, these so-called agitators are making conditions unsafe and spurring a crackdown by authorities. “It completely changes the narrative,” she said Monday. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/2 "2014-08-20T02:28:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve read there were agitators who infiltrated some of the student groups in the sixties. Egging on and encouraging riots and violence. Using and manipulating the crowds to promote their own agendas. The usual name for these is FBI informants: > **[COINTELPRO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cointelpro)** > > COINTELPRO (a syllabic abbreviation derived from Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert and illegal projects conducted between 1956 and 1971 by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting American political organizations that the FBI perceived as subversive. Groups and individuals targeted by the FBI included feminist organizations, the Communist Party USA, anti-Vietnam War organi The FBI has used covert ... > **[The Informants](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/07/fbi-terrorist-informants/)** > > The FBI has built a massive network of spies to prevent another domestic attack. But are they busting terrorist plots—or leading them? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/3 "2014-08-20T03:52:26Z")
I finally remembered the correct legal term. [Sedition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition). Would these laws apply to agitators who egg on crowds to riot and create anarchy? For example The New Black Panthers that may have come to Ferguson to promote violence against the police. [Seditious conspiracy.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seditious_conspiracy) > [@](#): > > If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. > [@](#): > > In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/4 "2014-08-20T03:58:22Z")
There’s a more ordinary term than sedition: [inciting to riot.](http://definitions.uslegal.com/i/incite-a-riot/) > [@](#): > > Under federal law, a riot is a public disturbance involving an act of violence by one or more persons assembled in a group of at least three people. Inciting a riot applies to a person who organizes, encourages, or participates in a riot. It can apply to one who urges or instigates others to riot. According to 18 USCS § 2102 “to incite a riot”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.” I believe that states have similar laws to the federal one. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/5 "2014-08-21T18:30:20Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The usual name for these is FBI informants: > [COINTELPRO - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cointelpro) > [The Informants – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/08/fbi-terrorist-informants) Don’t be silly. they’re not all with the FBI: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/St1-WTc1kow/hqdefault.jpg "Police Provocateurs stopped by union leader at anti SPP protest") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow) ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/6 "2014-08-21T19:38:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > For example The New Black Panthers that may have come to Ferguson to promote violence against the police. **PastTense** called it in one. [Even Black Panthers is synonymous with FBI Informant](http://www.infowars.com/new-black-panthers-protect-cops-in-ferguson/). Just kidding. Here’s a [real cite](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/malik-zulu-shabazz). According to the police in Ferguson, the New Black Panthers have incited zero people to riot, and have broken zero laws, according to the [only article I could find that wasn’t from a right wing hate site](http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/20/controversy-surrounds-new-black-panter-protester/14354297/). So there’s nothing to charge them with. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/7 "2014-08-21T23:22:37Z")
Even if the Panthers specifically aren’t doing this, there are others who are, so it still makes sense to ask the question with regards to them. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/8 "2014-08-21T23:38:17Z")
The reports I’ve been hearing over the past week or so are saying that the majority of people being arrested for rioting-related charges are from out of town; many are from out of state. If true, then it would seem that people are indeed going to Ferguson, MO specifically to stir up trouble. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/9 "2014-08-23T03:00:42Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > The reports I’ve been hearing over the past week or so are saying that the majority of people being arrested for rioting-related charges are from out of town; many are from out of state. If true, then it would seem that people are indeed going to Ferguson, MO specifically to stir up trouble. To be accurate, one has to be careful. From the numbers I read, the vast majority of people being arrested are from outside Ferguson, but only just. They are from the area. Some of the arrested are from out of state, but a small number compared to the total arrested. Describing the two groups in the same sentence runs the risk that a casual reader will conflate the two. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/10 "2014-08-23T03:41:51Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > From the numbers I read, the vast majority of people being arrested are from outside Ferguson, but only just. And the main area of protesting is itself _just_ inside Ferguson, so it’s not like people from other communities necessarily have to travel to get to there. The intersection of West Florissant Avenue and Ferguson Avenue, where the liquor store is, is partially in Jennings. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/11 "2014-08-24T01:24:51Z")
Well, the arrest logs have been published. Nothing spectacular. I guess hurling Molotov cocktails isn’t a big deal anymore. I thought bomb making charges would have been filed. Overall the cops were surprisingly lenient with their charges. I don’t see anything listed that will result in prison sentences. Maybe short jail sentences and that’s it. > **[Who was arrested in Ferguson? | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/ferguson-arrests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > Official arrest logs show most of the people arrested in Ferguson, Missouri, protests were from St. Louis area. > [@](#): > > But the numbers do tell this simple story: 130 people were charged with refusal to disperse, 18 or so with burglary – which may or may not be related to looting – and nine with disorderly conduct. A handful of people were charged with resisting arrest and two people were charged with careless driving. > > And, 20 people appear to have made a serious tactical error by joining the crowd in Ferguson: They were picked up on existing arrest or fugitive warrants. > > Seven of the people arrested were journalists trying to cover the story. The list does not include reporters from the Washington Post and Huffington Post, who were arrested in the early days of the protests. It does include a Getty photographer who was arrested, along with several international journalists and representatives from online media sites. An eighth was a college senior, a journalism major photographing the protests for a newspaper in Cincinnati. > > Thursday night saw an eerie quiet descend, and the number of arrests dropped sharply; only eight were reported. > [@](#): > > The logs compiled by the St. Louis County police cover August 10 through 22 and list 212 arrests in Ferguson. They can’t tell the full story, since they do not include arrests made by Ferguson police. They do not identify the arrestees by age or race. No incident reports are attached to provide details. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/12 "2014-08-24T03:05:33Z")
GQ answer: As mentioned, every state Penal Code AND the Federal laws contains the offense of _Incitement Of Riot_ or whatever the preferred local verbiage. It has been in the books for a very, very long time, it’s not any sort of “special case” provision. /GQ Answer Commentary: The Sedition statutes are supposed to apply in specific circumstances, and ISTM in modern times the charge of sedition is sparingly (and some say selectively) applied – mostly when the point the AG is trying to make is that the accused ARE a real threat to the constitutional order, have an organization and plan to try and impose their will on the US through force, and we really, really, really, really need to put them away. Last succesful sedition convictions were Omar Abdel Rahman and other ringleaders of the 1993 WTC bombing i.e. we’re talking major terrorist level. Not merely being a violent putz who hates the government. IMO, what you had in Ferguson was a vulgar spree of violent rioting, vandalism and minor looting, with some rabble rousers thrown in. Wrecking a strip mall is not an organized operation to make war on the US government. So, yes, incitement to riot, failure to disperse, resisting arrest, maybe a few A&Bs, firearms offenses and AWDWs but hardly anyone looking at 20-to-life. If someone _ **does** _, though, have evidence categorically proving someone in particular did prepare, transport and/or deploy Molotovs, then they may and could charge that person with weapons/explosives/destructive device offenses, etc. but that will be up to the local officials to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-special-laws-to-deal-with-agitators-that-encourage-crowds-to-riot/695965/13 "2014-08-24T23:18:30Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > The reports I’ve been hearing over the past week or so are saying that the majority of people being arrested for rioting-related charges are from out of town; many are from out of state. If true, then it would seem that people are indeed going to Ferguson, MO specifically to stir up trouble. “Stir up trouble” - in other words, not to exercise their constitutional rights of free speech and assembly. Same with the Freedom Riders, I guess. :dubious: