# Are there states where something is uniquely illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195 "2021-08-07T14:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/81 "2021-08-08T19:24:48Z")
I’m from Virginia but have mentioned before I own a hunting cabin in WV and have traversed the border back and forth a ton since the 1970s. Both states have a history of very quirky alcohol laws and keeping them sorted, especially if you are regularly in both, can be a bit wild. I think WV is technically still a “private club” state, because in its state constitution there is a prohibition on serving alcohol in “saloons or other public places.” However in practice the vast majority of people drinking in West Virginia never know this, because there’s functional work arounds that make it a seamless experience. Typically there’s more or less a “legal fiction” that the first $1 of your first drink is actually you paying your $1 membership to become a member of the private club. WV had ABC stores when I first started spending time there, same as in VA, but it did away with them in the 1980s. Liquor can be sold in grocery stores in WV, but only to stores with a “liquor agency”, which I think historically were quite limited. For many years the counties I spent time in, only Rite Aid stores had liquor agencies. While in other parts of the state, for example around Morgantown, Giant Eagle stores had a liquor agency so you could buy liquor in them, but other large supermarkets didn’t. When I first started spending time in WV, I think some of its counties were still dry, but far fewer than in VA. I don’t know that WV has any dry counties any more. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/82 "2021-08-08T19:55:19Z")
Louisiana was the last state to raise their legal drinking age from 18 to 21. Reportedly because they were getting more money from booze sales during the Mardi Gras season than they would get from federal highway funds which were threatened to be withheld unless they raised the age. [The state partially acquiesced in '86 – those 18 to 20 could legally buy booze but drinking said booze became illegal unless with a family member. That changed a decade later.](https://apnews.com/article/8aecf98f78c017e7da1f5cef6444daa6) ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/83 "2021-08-08T20:04:51Z")
I don’t know if it’s still the law, but back in the 80s Evanston Illinois had a law against restaurants selling alcoholic drinks unless you also ordered food. There were a few times when a bunch of us would go out to eat and one of us only wanted a drink. The waitress wouldn’t let him order a drink unless he also ordered something to eat. So he got an appetizer and the rest of us ate it for him. ---
**Author:** ![Redcanoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b487fb/32.png) [@Redcanoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redcanoe)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/84 "2021-08-08T20:31:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Regarding self service gas being illegal, do convienence stores in those states sell gasoline? Not in Oregon that I’ve seen. Many gas stations do have a Quickie Mart type store. There are 2 newly built 7/11s with pumps, looks strange to me, I’m not used to it. I’ve had station employees spill gas on my car and the ground. They’re not highly trained “refueling technicians.” As to driving off with the nozzle still in the car, can happen any time, self serve or not. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/85 "2021-08-08T21:12:59Z")
I haven’t driven in Oregon - but in NJ, what I have seen is more accurately described as “gas stations also having a convenience store”. I’m sure there are some that are similar to what I’ve seen in other places,( a convenience store with one or two gas pumps) but in NJ ( and NY and PA for that matter)\* what I typically see are large gas stations with ten or so pumps. Even in NJ where you can’t pump gas yourself. \*this may have to do with where I specifically go in those states. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/86 "2021-08-08T22:22:31Z")
I was there in the 90s, and I don’t recall a law like that still being in effect, but that sounds about par for the course for Evanston. When I was there, Burger King either wouldn’t bag your take-away food for you (or wouldn’t bag it for you after a certain time) in order to get around some law against 24-hour carry out restaurants, or something arcane like that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/87 "2021-08-08T22:35:41Z")
It is usually worse than that. Some city in Podunk, USA will have an ordinance that prohibits keeping farm animals in the city limits. Reasonable enough. But the publisher of the list will know that a donkey is a farm animal and that your bedroom closet is in the city limits and will proclaim that “In Podunk, USA it is illegal to keep a donkey in your bedroom closet!!!” Technically true, but misleading. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think WV is technically still a “private club” state, because in its state constitution there is a prohibition on serving alcohol in “saloons or other public places.” However in practice the vast majority of people drinking in West Virginia never know this, because there’s functional work arounds that make it a seamless experience. Typically there’s more or less a “legal fiction” that the first $1 of your first drink is actually you paying your $1 membership to become a member of the private club. Indeed. And it will be poised to bite the government in the ass when creative anti-government business owners start trying to get around various laws by saying that they are not a place of public accommodation or open to the public, but are merely private liquor clubs. It does breed a general disrespect for the state constitution when you try to say that Applebees is a private club and not only do you win that argument, but the government endorses it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/88 "2021-08-08T22:56:52Z")
Last year due to COVID-19, breweries in PA were shut down for awhile. Dark days. When those with outdoor seating were allowed to reopen, the catch was that all drinkers had to have food in front of them. Some places had crockpots filled with hotdogs, buns, etc and you had to buy a $1 hotdog. One place had Lunchables for $1. The trash cans were filled with opened but untouched lunchables. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/89 "2021-08-08T23:21:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > Typically there’s more or less a “legal fiction” that the first $1 of your first drink is actually you paying your $1 membership to become a member of the private club. > > Indeed. And it will be poised to bite the government in the ass when creative anti-government business owners start trying to get around various laws by saying that they are not a place of public accommodation or open to the public, but are merely private liquor clubs. > > It does breed a general disrespect for the state constitution when you try to say that Applebees is a private club and not only do you win that argument, but the government endorses it How does that actually, y’know, _work?_ Let’s say I go to that Applebee’s and order a drink, and later order a second drink — and, like the man said, the first dollar of the first drink was supposedly me paying a private-club membership fee. Okay, fine, whatever. But: what happens when I go back the _next_ evening, and order a drink? Do they just charge me a dollar again, or do they simply ask me if I’m a member who’d already paid his dues in full — or is there some kind of documentation? ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/90 "2021-08-08T23:23:57Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Also there’s one chain, and I can’t remember which one, but at least in Virginia it was only one specific chain that did it and I don’t use them regularly, has the “tab” removed from all their pumps. I’ve never known why, but since the tab/notch is normal in Virginia it was clearly just a corporate decision. At those stations you have to hold down the trigger the whole time. FWIW I may be an outlier but I usually just hold the pump trigger down the whole time anyway, unless I’m also doing something like washing my window with the squegee. _That_ explains it. I didn’t realize that someone actually removed the mechanism. I thought it was just a broke-ass gas pump. And I don’t remember what chain it is. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/91 "2021-08-08T23:30:41Z")
It works just like it does everywhere else. There is no $1 line item on your bill and there is no documentation you sign of any sort, and nobody ever mentions that you are in a private club. IOW, you will notice nothing different from drinking at Applebees in WV than from drinking at any other Applebees in the country. A regulation says that you are supposed to keep a sign in book to keep track of your “membership” for the evening, but I have not seen a sign in book for years, and the only time I have ever seen it enforced is as a pretext to go fishing for a real violation. As was said, the only reason it is there is because of this provision in the state constitution, passed to repeal prohibition: > **6-46. Manufacture and sale of liquor.** > > ` ` The Legislature shall by appropriate legislation regulate the manufacture and sale of intoxicating liquors within the limits of this state, and any law authorizing the sale of such liquors shall forbid and penalize the consumption and the sale thereof for consumption in a saloon or other public place. The state gets around it by saying that you are not in a public place, but in a private club. I see this is GQ, so…I’ll withhold further thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![yearofglad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b782af/32.png) [@yearofglad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yearofglad)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/92 "2021-08-08T23:31:05Z")
They don’t “charge you a dollar” - it’s “included” in the price of the drink. So it makes no difference to you whether part of the cost of the first drink is a membership fee or not; the drink costs you the same regardless. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/93 "2021-08-08T23:45:32Z")
> [@yearofglad](#): > > They don’t “charge you a dollar” - it’s “included” in the price of the drink. So it makes no difference to you whether part of the cost of the first drink is a membership fee or not; the drink costs you the same regardless Well, yeah, but — as UltraVires seems to have kinda sorta anticipated — if that’s so, then my follow-up question was going to be: how is it a private-club membership fee if _they_ don’t know I’m a member and _I_ don’t know I’m a member, since I didn’t (a) sign a membership agreement or (b) even notice that one of the dollars I handed over was, supposedly, not used to pay for the drink? I mean, look, I get the idea of smirkingly going through the motions, doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to claim — with a wink — that it’s a private club; I’m on board with that. But there’s _“it’s laughably obvious that you’re just pretending”_ and then there’s _“uh, you’re not even pretending”_, and if I show up without thinking I’m a member, and they have no record of whether I am now or have ever been a member, then it’s the _latter_, innit? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/94 "2021-08-08T23:46:03Z")
Pennsylvania is the only state where it’s illegal for local police to use radar for speed enforcement. Only state troopers can use radar. I know a bill was recently in legislation to change it but I don’t believe it has been signed yet. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/95 "2021-08-08T23:51:30Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I mean, look, I get the idea of smirkingly going through the motions, doing the absolute bare minimum necessary to claim — with a wink — that it’s a private club; I’m on board with that. But there’s _“it’s laughably obvious that you’re just pretending”_ and then there’s _“uh, you’re not even pretending”_ , and if I show up without thinking I’m a member, and they have no record of whether I’ve ever been a member, then it’s the _latter_ , innit? I don’t know of any requirement that they charge you a dollar or any fee at all. And yes, it is “uh, you’re not even pretending” and the state doesn’t care that you aren’t even pretending. It is a law that has been overruled by custom and lack of enforcement by the state…that is unless the state wants to nail you. I remember 25 or so years ago there was a big push by the religious groups to outlaw nude dancing. It never passed, but an influential state senator around here used her influence to get the strip joints cited for not keeping proper documentation on their private club “members.” The only other time I have seen it used was a local redneck bar owner didn’t buy his liquor wholesale from the state as he was required but had his brother bring it in by the case from Maryland where it is cheaper (even at the retail level in Maryland) and sold drinks from them in his bar. They busted him and instead of just accepting his citations, he called them motherfuckers and everything else. So they added on a failure to keep his membership list citation for good measure. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/96 "2021-08-09T00:06:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You don’t have to pump your own gas if you don’t want to. There are plenty of gas stations that offer full service pumps as an option. I’m not sure where you live, that you still are regularly seeing full-service gas pumps, but in the Chicago suburbs, it’s not “plenty,” to the point that I don’t think I’ve seen one in years. The BP station a mile or so from my house (which was probably built in the 1960s or 1970s) had kept a single full-service pump (along with a half-dozen or so self-service pumps) up until a couple of years ago, but when they finally got rid of their auto repair shop, they also phased out the full-service pump. Admittedly, many of the gas stations in this area have a sign by the pumps, with a push-button, that says something along the lines of, “If you need assistance operating the pump, please press the button,” which is, I imagine, supposed to signal the cashier (who is often the only employee in the place) to come out to help you pump your gas. I suppose that could qualify as “full service,” but primarily from the standpoint of accommodating people with disabilities. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > Also a long, long time ago, it was actually illegal for margarine (in Wisconsin) to be yellow in color. The dairy farmers were concerned about people mistaking it for butter. I’m 40 and never remember it being a thing, but people that are closer in age to my parents will tell you that when they bought margarine, it would come with a yellow dye packet so you could make it yellow on your own. Wisconsin was the last state to have a “no yellow margarine” law on the books, which was finally repealed in 1967. As per [this article from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/special-reports/dairy-crisis/2019/08/28/protect-dairy-industry-wisconsin-tried-keep-yellow-margarine-out-oleo-run/1950671001/) (may be behind a paywall): > [@](#): > > 1967: A yellow-letter day > > Gov. Warren Knowles signs the bill repealing Wisconsin’s 72-year-old ban on the sale of colored oleomargarine. At the bill signing, he’s flanked by 10 women, several of them from the Wisconsin Federal of Women’s Clubs, who had been leading the fight for repeal. The women, including Knowles’ wife, were all dressed in butter yellow. My family moved to Wisconsin in 1975, when I was 10, so I have no recollection of it, but I remember my fifth-grade teacher telling us stories about having to mix in the little yellow tablet of food coloring to make the margarine yellow. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2021, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/97 "2021-08-09T00:17:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Ferrets are illegal to keep as pets in California. F&G have gone easy on this if your “California flat cat” has been neutered. A few states make brass knuckles illegal- California, Michigan, Illinois and Vermont . CA has some really weird knife law, where “lipstick knives” and nunchucks are illegal. You can’t sell any new model of any handgun in CA. They must be 20th century or older. I mean, every stat has "crazy laws’ that really aren’t enforced or are no longer on the books. > [@Redcanoe](#): > > I’m in Oregon and I’ve had the doors off my jeep all summer so far. Pennsylvania is the only state to ban that. Not legal in CA on “the highway”. Off road it is fine. > [@Moriarty](#): > > What’s the logic behind the gas station attendant laws in New Jersey and Oregon? Is it to protect the industry somehow, or a relic from a time when it was more dangerous for people to operate their own gas pumps, or what? People will try to “Top off” and thus spell gas. I just saw that last week. Or drive off with the pump in the car. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Every pump I’ve used in the last 20 years in the Eastern U.S., if you’re using the tab and notch to “auto-depress” the trigger, once the tank is full the pump detects it and kicks the trigger off. To overfill you would have to then manually depress the trigger again–note that even doing that, the trigger auto kicks off. So then you have to manually depress it again. You basically have to keep working hard to actually overfill a gas tank and overflow it out of the car these days. Yep, morons will try very hard to do that. But they will. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/98 "2021-08-09T00:40:01Z")
Brass knuckles being illegal is one of those things thats weird because in California Ive seen places that sell them but they’re always with some sign that says THIS IS A PAPERWEIGHT or FOR DECORATIVE USE ONLY. Granted the types I see for sale look like the cheap overseas junk I wouldn’t trust in a fight anyway. There was a kurfluffle a decade ago where EA Games was making a video game based off the Godfather movies and sent it as promotional items a pair of brass knuckles to various reviewers or other game industry people. They obviously didn’t know about the law since those sent to California and Illinois were immediately recalled leading to ALL of them being recalled. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/99 "2021-08-09T01:30:37Z")
Now that you mention it, I remember once going into a fast-food place in Evanston and trying to get my order to go. I was told they couldn’t give it to me to go, but I could take the tray over to another counter where there was a pile of bags so I could bag it myself. This was in the middle of the day, so it wasn’t a late night thing. Evanston had some strange laws. I think the “no drink without food” was tied to the fact that it was the home of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2021, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195/100 "2021-08-09T03:02:58Z")
When I was driving through Europe a couple of years ago I came to a restaurant in France that was fully open but the staff told me I couldn’t order anything until opening time an hour later, but I was free to just hang out in the lobby at a table for an hour as they got everything ready. Couldn’t even order a can of soda, I just left. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-states-where-something-is-uniquely-illegal/948195.md?page=6)