# Are there still TWO major leagues? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 18, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985 "2001-07-18T22:51:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/1 "2001-07-18T22:51:55Z")
Just the idea of major league baseball teams playing interleague games is weird enough; but I read last week the NL and AL Presidents no longer exist–that is, the office has been discontinued. Is that accurate? Is there just one league now–like the NFL? It seems to be a case of Tweedledum and Tweedledee… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/2 "2001-07-18T23:00:43Z")
Yes, the office of league president was abolished last year. All baseball opertaions are now conducted under the MLB umbrella. The division of baseball into two leagues is now pretty much historical/arbitrary. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/3 "2001-07-18T23:08:45Z")
Yeah, about the only difference between the two now is the designated hitter. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/4 "2001-07-18T23:14:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*Yeah, about the only difference between the two now is the designated hitter. \*\* See **jab1** , we can agree on something! (reference to a GD we’re having) 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/5 "2001-07-18T23:20:28Z")
I’m also looking forward to watching _Enterprise_. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2001, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/6 "2001-07-18T23:25:21Z")
Not only the DH, but the fact that, in order to perpetuate the All Star Game and the World Series, which are big money-makers and PR events for MLB, they have to continue with the two different leagues. Even though **Zev** is correct in his assessment of the division of the two leagues, I can’t see it changing too much. Schedules will still allow for inter-city rivals and long-standing grudge matches between AL and NL teams, but I’ve heard a number of commentators mention that nobody is really going to come out to see the Tigers play Philadelphia, or the Angels play the Mets. There are bigger draws within each league (e.g., Boston/Yankees, Atlanta/Mets) that it’s not worth watering it down. That’s not to say MLB won’t get some gerbil-headed idea about “improving” the game that will prove disastrous/laughable/shameful/moronic/alloftheabove. But my feeling is, keep the obvious interleague games in the schedule and keep the schedules heavy on same-division play within the league, so as to make winning within your division that much more important to the standings. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/7 "2001-07-19T00:44:48Z")
From a business standpoint, maintaining two separate league offices with individual functions made no sense. It’s much more efficient to have one set of umpires and one set of administrators. Baseball has big 21st Century type problems to fix and maintaining the artifice that the 16 teams in the NL operate as a separate entity from the 14 AL teams is a pretty expensive one. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/8 "2001-07-20T06:20:48Z")
Like money is a problem to those bastards! It is **Power** for the owners and not money that’s caused the change. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/9 "2001-07-20T06:26:58Z")
I would assume that power and money are pretty much the same thing in this situation. If the owners make more money, they have more power. Streamlined operations reduce overhead. It also makes it easier for them in the collective bargaining process. There isn’t an NL Players’ Association and an AL Players’ Association. I don’t have any love for baseball owners, but this particular move by them to streamline their operations makes a lot of sense. It is one of the few sensible things that baseball owners have done. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/10 "2001-07-20T17:57:29Z")
I wasn’t dogging you, just saw a chance to say something nasty about the baseball owners and couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/11 "2001-07-21T21:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > But my feeling is, keep the obvious interleague games in the schedule and keep the schedules heavy on same-division play within the league, so as to make winning within your division that much more important to the standings. Actually, I agree with this to some extent. Perhaps the Dodger-Angel, Giant-Athletic, Cub-White Sock series, for example, would be relevant. (I know that at least before World War I the Cubs and White Sox–in the regular World Series in 1906–regularly played an intercity series; and the Angels and Cubs seem to have had something of a rivalry in spring-training games.) But I am hard put to see that a game between the Dodgers and the A’s, or the Royals and the Expos, or the Orioles and the Mets should count in the league standings or in things like players’ batting averages, for example. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/12 "2001-07-21T22:17:37Z")
There’s a Cub-Angels rivarly in the Cactus League? It must only be talked about in Chicago. I’ve never heard anyone from Southern California talk about that. Go figure. Also, as a nitpick and this is a mistake that I make at times, but the Cubs-White Sox and Yankees-Mets are INTRAcity rivalries, not INTERcity rivalries. L.A. vs. San Francisco is an intercity rivalry. I attended a Cubs-White Sox game last week at Wrigley and that series is far more heated than the Dodgers-Angels “Freeway Series”. But getting back to the OP, if it weren’t for the fact that baseball owners historically haven’t gotten along with each other has been the main reason for keeping two leagues. After the NL and AL signed their “peace treaty” in 1903, they really became one entity with the ability to prevent other teams from impinging on their territory and able to keep players under contract almost forever with their mutual use of the reserve clause. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/13 "2001-07-21T23:10:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > **There’s a Cub-Angels rivarly in the Cactus League? It must only be talked about in Chicago. I’ve never heard anyone from Southern California talk about that. Go figure.** I rarely hear anyone from Southern California talk about the Angels, period! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![djf750](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@djf750](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djf750)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/14 "2001-07-22T19:14:59Z")
why discuss this at all when they still allow ASTROTURF in major league games? this shit actually changes the outcome of games so who cares about scheduling or anything else? a game on astroturf is simply not a real game (the ball behaves differently than on grass and dirt) so who cares about all the rest? this is what people should be upset about, but it is just accepted as normal ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/15 "2001-07-23T19:02:13Z")
Not as many stadiums have artificial turf anymore: Metrodome (Minnesota) Skydome (Toronto) Tropicana Field (Tampa Bay) Veterans (Philadelphia) Olympic (Montreal) Compare this to just ten years ago, when St. Louis, Kansas City, Houston, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Seattle all played on artificial turf in addition to those five teams. Except for Toronto and Tampa Bay, all the teams that play in those stadiums want new parks with real grass. Since Tampa is such a new team, it won’t have the bucks or the political clout to get a new stadium any time soon. Of course, if they don’t start winning and putting people in the seats, it’ll be moot because the team will fold or move. SkyDome could get real grass, but it would be really expensive to retrofit the stadium and they spent too much on the place to replace it so soon. (It’s only 12 years old.) Any way, the point is that artificial turf is not the factor it used to be, and it may be limited to just two parks in five years or so. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/16 "2001-07-23T19:15:46Z")
Philadelphia and Tampa Bay use Field Turf, not Astroturf, which is actually much more like grass than Astroturf. I don’t think Astroturf has nearly the same effect on competition as does the playing of 81 games in Denver. All baseball stadiums have some sort of quirk that changes the way the game is played. Dodger Stadium and the Oakland Coliseum have a lot of foul territory, is that bad? Enron Field has a short fence in left. Comerica Park has deep gaps. The success of the Twins and Phillies this year owes very little to the presence of artificial surface in their stadiums. If it did, they should have been better before. ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/17 "2001-07-23T20:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > if they [Tampa Bay] don’t start winning and putting people in the seats, it’ll be moot because the team will fold or move Hey, I lived in St. Pete in the last half of the 70’s and can testify that winning isn’t a requirement for pro sports teams in Tampa Bay. In fact, I still make the joke about Doug Williams being the “Man Who Could Overthrow the Shah” whenever his name comes up. [sub]Yeah, no one else laughs, either. Don’t worry about it.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/18 "2001-07-26T22:36:30Z")
I must be showing my age. In the mid-60s, the Angels usually started their spring-training season with the Cubs, and it was particularly relevant in 1964–because of the saddening of players and fans when Cubs rookie Ken Hubbs, two years after setting a fielding mark at second base, died tragically in a plane crash. There was a minute of silence before the opening game between the two teams. ☹ (Worse still, according to _The Baseball Hall of Shame,_ a bubble-gum company issued a card with the stats of Cubs pitcher Dick Ellsworth–but the picture was of the deceased Ken Hubbs!) Maybe the Angels and Cubs don’t meet much anymore in the “Cactus League”… ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/19 "2001-07-26T23:30:24Z")
The Angels and Cubs do play a lot in the Cactus League. They both train in Mesa, but I don’t think any spring training game is particularly heated these days. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-still-two-major-leagues/72985/20 "2001-07-27T01:42:13Z")
I would say that, in the Arizona desert, EVERYTHING is heated in the spring. _RIM SHOT_