# Are there things that have been discussed to death that we should not debate anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2025, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649 "2025-01-06T18:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/42 "2025-01-08T03:50:03Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > > [@RitterSport](#): > > > > On the topic of the thread, I don’t think there has been any movement on any side about the morality of abortion. I think it’s fine to discuss any new laws and restrictions, and their implications for fetuses and pregnant people, but the morality of abortion itself has been done to death with no movement > > That’s because you haven’t heard my amazingly original and groundbreaking argument against abortion that no one has ever considered before! /jk But isn’t it possible that such an argument exists? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/43 "2025-01-08T03:54:34Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But isn’t it possible that such an argument exists? Possible? Sure. But, the odds of a novel, groundbreaking, meaningful argument on it (or any of the other Tired Topics) being initially posited by a Doper, here on the SDMB, is so small that it’s not worth getting rid of the Tired Topics bans, because all it would do is re-open the ability to troll and have the same old circular arguments as before. Now, if new, novel information or philosophical ideas on one of the Tired Topics began to circulate elsewhere, and members and staff here felt that it was novel enough to allow for that topic to be re-opened here, that’s a different story. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/44 "2025-01-08T03:55:22Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Now, if new, novel information or philosophical ideas on one of the Tired Topics began to circulate elsewhere, and members and staff here felt that it novel enough to allow for that topic to be re-opened here, that’s a different story. OK. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/45 "2025-01-08T04:13:39Z")
Another topic I think shouldn’t be banned, but is awfully hard to have a fresh discussion about, is capitalism, socialism and communism. Inevitably, every such debate takes the form of each proponent claiming that only the good examples of their economics “count,” and every form of their economics that backfired in real life wasn’t _real_ communism, capitalism or socialism - while, at the same time, _only_ the worst examples of their opponents could be the true version of the ideology they oppose. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/46 "2025-01-08T04:37:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Mustard on a hot dog. It’s wrong. Full stop. > > I thought you were better than that. > > Allow me to edumacate you on “the three rules of mustard”: > > 1. The only acceptable mustard is Dijon, with the sole exception set out in Rule #2. > > 2. Plain yellow mustard is required for hot dogs, and for hot dogs only, and it must be applied from a squeeze bottle in the form of swirls atop the frankfurter after all the other ingredients have been added. > > 3. Ketchup on a hot dog is an abomination. It is an affront to nature and to the Lord our God. My favourite hot dog condiments are catsup, mustard, fried onions & melted cheese. Yum. 😋 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/47 "2025-01-08T04:40:59Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Just a comment, but it’s the “good faith” element that keeps coming up. For the most part, we can assume that most posters here are acting in good faith, although some of us have blind spots on specific issues, for good and ill. > > Far too often, posts touching on the “tired topics” or on other subjects that have been discussed to death are NOT acting in good faith, they’re trolls, trocks or “truthers” on a certain subject. Which is why there’s a great deal of suspicion ( Mea culpa btw) of any new poster, _especially_ if they post on charged issues right away. Yes, this…and not just on this forum, I see the same pattern everywhere. Especially on subjects where the facts are politically inconvenient for one side, or where the awfulness of one side is obvious so its proponents and defenders have to furiously obfuscate to make it look reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/48 "2025-01-08T04:43:44Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > > Now, if new, novel information or philosophical ideas on one of the Tired Topics began to circulate elsewhere, and members and staff here felt that it novel enough to allow for that topic to be re-opened here, that’s a different story. > > OK. Good point. Just to make it clear for anyone following along at home, this is already our SOP (standard operating procedure) for Tired Topics per our TOS (terms of service). I quote: > **Tired topics.** The following subjects have been beaten to death on this board and are cIosed to further discussion. If you feel new information has come to light that warrants reopening of a tired topic, you are free to petition the staff, but be aware that you face a high bar: So even if we add _new_ tired topics or the equivalent, the mods in their communal wisdom can evaluate if your unique or new perspective is fresh enough to have a controlled discussion. And of course, I’m 100% certain like some of our other charged threads, it will be one with _tight_ moderation. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/49 "2025-01-08T06:09:04Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > [35 tired and trite dead horses](https://defector.com/discourses-we-can-stop-having-ranked) in the blog post cited by the OP Just for fun, I’m gonna take a swing at all of 'em; Is Die Hard a Christmas movie? - Sure, why not How early you should get to the airport - 2 hours Tipping - You should Do bisexuals exist? - Of course they do Body counts - Not my business Booing - Whenever appropriate Followback culture - I ain’t no follaback girl Polyamory - Not my business Irish goodbyes - I don’t know what this is Should a video game have a woman in it? (Gamergate) - Gamergate can go straight to hell Who pays for the first date? - The man Posting Twitter screenshots on Bluesky - Fine Picky eaters (adults) - Not my place to tell people what they Is a hot dog a sandwich? - Yes Is “Baby It’s Cold Outside” rape culture? - No Fare evasion - Unacceptable Reading as a moral act - I don’t understand the question Cast-iron pans - They have their uses Pit bulls - All doggos are good boys “No teenager’s favorite piece of culture is [classic book/movie]” - You underestimate teenagers’ ability to get into some weird stuff Ordering takeout vs. cooking at home - Whatever floats your boat Washing your legs - Doesn’t everyone? MFAs - I don’t know what this is Are audiobooks reading? - Sure Using a top sheet - A what now? Choosing not to have children - Probably for the best if you’ve been paying attention to the way the world is headed Walkable cities - Good Los Angeles - Wouldn’t live there but it’s nice YIMBY/upzoning - Essential to resolving the housing shortage Is it immoral to order things online? - Of course not Reading 100 books a year - Who has that kind of time? I don’t Masking - Yes Ozempic - Good Outdoor cats - Not good Age gap - If everyone is of legal age I have no objection ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/50 "2025-01-08T11:14:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > MFAs - I don’t know what this is I’m guessing either Multi Factor Authentication or made-for-advertising websites, I don’t think Masters of Fine arts degrees would be particularly controversial. > [@Smapti](#): > > Using a top sheet - A what now? [More than you probably want to know about topsheets](https://bedthreads.com.au/blogs/journal/do-you-need-a-top-sheet-debate) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/51 "2025-01-08T11:34:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t think Masters of Fine arts degrees would be particularly controversial. You might think so - and yet Master of Fine Arts programs remain highly controversial in the arts-and-letters world. (Among the controversies: Are they career enhancers or scams? Are they killing the novel/poem/painting etc. by enforcing a tired academic style?) I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what the author was referencing. > **[The Great MFA Debate: Do Artists Need Graduate School to Succeed?](https://www.artworkarchive.com/blog/the-great-mfa-debate-do-artists-need-graduate-school-to-succeed)** > > We asked six working artists their thoughts on grad school—and took notes. > **[MFA vs NYC: A Debate, Ooligan Press](https://www.ooliganpress.com/mfa-vs-nyc-a-debate/)** > > On October 23, 2014, the graduate program in Book Publishing and Ooligan Press presented latest installment of the Transmit Culture lecture series, "MFA vs... ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/52 "2025-01-08T11:39:11Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > in the arts-and-letters world That’s not the general internet/socials, like the rest of that list. Authentication would be my pick, it’s a perceived annoyance to many more people ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/53 "2025-01-08T11:53:26Z")
Irish goodbyes are when you leave a party or gathering without saying goodbye to everyone (or anyone), kind of sneaking out of a gathering. The other term I’ve heard recently are Jewish goodbyes, where you start saying goodbye to people and, an hour later, are still there chatting and saying goodbyes. ETA: I have no idea if the controversy is whether you should or should not do Irish goodbyes (sure, whatever floats your boat), or if the term is racist or ethnist or something. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/54 "2025-01-08T12:47:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For instance, the part where it bans Dopers from starting threads stating that men are disadvantaged in society - I’m sure there may be at least 1 way in which men might face some disadvantage compared to women, worth a thread, while men are still possessing many other advantages over women. I took that one as meaning it’s banning MRA as it has become popularly understood in the US – i.e. tied up with a toxic culture of misogyny and where men should be andrew tate style “alphas”. I think if one were to start a thread narrowly on something like child custody practices, it might not be considered as an MRA thread and allowed. Unless and until it fell into something like the prior paragraph. But someone can correct me if I’m wrong. ETA: Let alone any thread discussing a way that men are disadvantaged. That’s not inherently “men’s rights”. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/55 "2025-01-08T12:54:35Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I guess I’m saying, let’s try not to take this “banned topics” thing too far. So you’re saying you want your moderation in moderation? 😉 Sounds like a great idea to me. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > Just a comment, but it’s the “good faith” element that keeps coming up. > … > The one subject I’d _consider_ adding to the topic is the whole role of trans athletes in sports. Excellent post overall and I agree the trans sports ban is a good idea for the banhammer on-deck circle. I may not be paying close enough attention, but I don’t _think_ we’re presently being flooded with OPs about that. If anyone thinks otherwise I’m happy to be edumacated. The other bans were more in response to excessive numbers of threads, not excessive vehemence of disagreement. Overall I think we can pretty well say that most of the _current_ “tired” topics aren’t so much tired as they are “RW fantasy boogeymen peddled by Faux, Alex Jones, etc.” And tilting at the lie-du-jour is pointless. We few here will never outshout Faux and their sponsors. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/56 "2025-01-08T14:39:55Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The objection is that the sugary ketchup drowns out the spices in the frankfurter (the quality brands - not the spongey pink chicken hot dogs fed to children and the institutionalized). The unresolved question, at least IME, is why it _matters_ to Person A that Person B puts ketchup on _their_ hot dog. But let’s not try to resolve that mystery in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/57 "2025-01-08T16:09:39Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The other term I’ve heard recently are Jewish goodbyes, where you start saying goodbye to people and, an hour later, are still there chatting and saying goodbyes. Also known, around here, as the Wisconsin Goodbye or Midwest Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/58 "2025-01-08T16:13:53Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > You might think so - and yet Master of Fine Arts programs remain highly controversial in the arts-and-letters world. And in academic dress too. It is a doctoral -level degree but as a “master’s” they are not entitled to wear doctoral gowns. On the other hand, those that get a first-professional degree that are the level of a master’s degree but have “Doctor” in the name like JD, MD, DPharm, DPsych, &c. do get to wear doctoral robes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/59 "2025-01-08T17:07:34Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Allow me to edumacate you on “the three rules of mustard”: > > 1. The only acceptable mustard is Dijon, with the sole exception set out in Rule #2. > 2. Plain yellow mustard is required for hot dogs, and for hot dogs only, and it must be applied from a squeeze bottle in the form of swirls atop the frankfurter after all the other ingredients have been added. > 3. Ketchup on a hot dog is an abomination. It is an affront to nature and to the Lord our God. Allow me to educamacate you on the one rule of mustard. 1. Food with mustard applied ceases to be food. It’s not far from the one rule of mayo. 1. Hot food with mayo applied ceases to be food. Cold food with mayo is fine. Both are well-known corollaries to the proverb about a teaspoon of sewage in a barrel of wine. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/60 "2025-01-08T17:39:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Hot food with mayo applied ceases to be food. Cool! Does that mean the lunch I just ate doesn’t have calories? I didn’t realize until just now that it wasn’t even food! ETA: The lunch in question was a piece of fried chicken on a toasted bun with lettuce and mayo. If I’d waited for the chicken and the bun to cool, would it then have been transmuted back into being food? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649/61 "2025-01-08T17:55:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Ban me then. Pineapple is great with ham. Yes it is. But not on a pizza. > [@wolfpup](#): > > - The only acceptable mustard is Dijon, with the sole exception set out in Rule #2. > - Plain yellow mustard is required for hot dogs, and for hot dogs only, and it must be applied from a squeeze bottle in the form of swirls atop the frankfurter after all the other ingredients have been added. > - Ketchup on a hot dog is an abomination. It is an affront to nature and to the Lord our God. Obviously. Those rules come from the Bible and are beyond question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-things-that-have-been-discussed-to-death-that-we-should-not-debate-anymore/1012649.md?page=4)