# are there water-borne illnesses that cannot be stopped by boiling drinking water? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255 "2011-06-12T22:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/1 "2011-06-12T22:35:56Z")
in other words, suppose chemical treatment of water is discontinued and we are back to just boiling it religiously before drinking, like the medieval Chinese did. Plus maybe singing the dishes with boiling water after washing them with “dirty” untreated water. Would there be water-borne disease outbreaks? Are any of these diseases immune to heat or would they spread through some mechanism that bypasses the boiling? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/2 "2011-06-12T22:50:16Z")
Water borne illness can be transmitted a variety of ways. Brushing teeth, washing hands, showers etc. in untreated water. [http://www.mass.gov/dep/water/drinking/boilfaq.htm](http://www.mass.gov/dep/water/drinking/boilfaq.htm) I know backpackers boil water 20 minutes to kill stubborn pathogens like giardia lamblia. A few drops of bleach per gallon is also effective. good article on what can be in water [http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/he393.html](http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/he393.html) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/3 "2011-06-12T22:52:13Z")
I am told (and looked it up myself) that boiling for X minutes is unnecessary. Once the water gets to boiling point, the pathogens you can kill are already dead. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/4 "2011-06-12T23:10:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Water borne illness can be transmitted a variety of ways. Brushing teeth, washing hands, showers etc. in untreated water. > [http://www.mass.gov/dep/water/drinking/boilfaq.htm](http://www.mass.gov/dep/water/drinking/boilfaq.htm) ok, here is a quote from this link: > [@](#): > > Is it necessary to boil all water in the home during an advisory or order? > > During boil water advisories or boil water orders, you should boil all water used for drinking, preparing food, beverages, ice cubes, washing fruits and vegetables, or brushing teeth. Severely immuno-compromised individuals should always boil their tap water for the purposes noted above. Infant formulas should be prepared using boiled tap water, at all times. In the event that boiling is not practical, the PWS may recommend an alternative supply known to be safe (e.g., bottled water) or may direct you to disinfect the water using household bleach. > > It is not necessary to boil tap water used for other household purposes, such as showering, laundry, or bathing. Adults, teens, and older children can wash, bathe, or shower; however, they should avoid swallowing the water. Toddlers and infants should be sponge-bathed. well, sounds great, not onerous at all. Except, this tells me nothing about whether or not some water borne diseases will spread regardless of these measures, such as because they withstand boiling. Similarly, if the Government tells me that it’s a good idea to hide under my desk when the aerial attack alarm sounds, it tells me fairly little about the risks inherent in being close to a nuclear blast. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/5 "2011-06-12T23:56:02Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > Would there be water-borne disease outbreaks? Are any of these diseases immune to heat or would they spread through some mechanism that bypasses the boiling? Boiling won’t remove toxins. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/6 "2011-06-12T23:56:06Z")
A lot of bad stuff can be in water. I always bring a filter and water treatment tablets on my backpacking trips. I Always filter. I either boil or use the tablets. Even then I’ve gotten sick on a few trips. May have been unwashed berries, the water or who knows what. It happens. Even that may not be enough in extreme cases… > [@](#): > > It is not possible to tell whether water is of an appropriate quality by visual examination. Simple procedures such as boiling or the use of a household activated carbon filter are not sufficient for treating all the possible contaminants that may be present in water from an unknown source. Even natural spring water – considered safe for all practical purposes in the 19th century – must now be tested before determining what kind of treatment, if any, is needed. > **[Water purification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification)** > > Water purification is the process of removing undesirable chemicals, biological contaminants, suspended solids, and gases from water. The goal is to produce water that is fit for specific purposes. Most water is purified and disinfected for human consumption (drinking water), but water purification may also be carried out for a variety of other purposes, including medical, pharmacological, chemical, and industrial applications. The history of water purification includes a wide variety of meth... ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/7 "2011-06-13T00:00:25Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Boiling won’t remove toxins. could you elaborate? Is that let’s say toxins generated by cholera bacteria or another living organism? Or is that industrial contamination type of chemicals? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/8 "2011-06-13T00:07:01Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Boiling won’t remove toxins. What toxins? Be specific. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/9 "2011-06-13T00:08:51Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > could you elaborate? Is that let’s say toxins generated by cholera bacteria or another living organism? Or is that industrial contamination type of chemicals? I was thinking mainly of chemical contamination, but I suppose there might be toxins produced by bacteria that can survive too (I know nothing about such things). Mercury poisoning is a disease, so that’s one answer to your original question. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/10 "2011-06-13T00:10:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A lot of bad stuff can be in water. I always bring a filter and water treatment tablets on my backpacking trips. I Always filter. I either boil or use the tablets. Even then I’ve gotten sick on a few trips. May have been unwashed berries, the water or who knows what. It happens. > > Even that may not be enough in extreme cases… > > [Water purification - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification) my feelings about this particular wikipedia article rightfully belong in the pit :). A dumb laundry list of factual tidbits without context, analysis, comparison, well, without anything. Ignorance masquerading as scholarship. Gaah… Oh, and the [Waterborne disease - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_diseases) article never bothers to even consider my OP question :(. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/11 "2011-06-13T00:11:29Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > What toxins? Be specific. I’ll be less specific: boiling won’t remove all toxins. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/12 "2011-06-13T00:14:27Z")
Boiling won’t kill botulism, it survives to 118 C. Heavy metal contamination (arsenic, lead, mercury) is not removed by boiling water. Cyanobacteria is a deadly toxin and boiling doesn’t remove it. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/13 "2011-06-13T00:28:19Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > Boiling won’t kill botulism, it survives to 118 C. Heavy metal contamination (arsenic, lead, mercury) is not removed by boiling water. Cyanobacteria is a deadly toxin and boiling doesn’t remove it. interesting. The botulism article does not seem to discuss the water-borne spread of the disease. If it were to in fact start spreading like that in “premodern” conditions, presumably it would have to be controlled by heating water to 120C in a pressure cooker. Cyanobacteria article is to me pretty unclear. Do they mean that water from some lakes ends up containing these toxins and they cannot be boiled or otherwise destroyed? Or does the water just contain the bacteria itself and it is dangerous to ingest? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/14 "2011-06-13T00:47:01Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > I was thinking mainly of chemical contamination, but I suppose there might be toxins produced by bacteria that can survive too (I know nothing about such things). According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin), a toxin (Greek: τοξικόν, toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced by living cells or organisms, so something like arsenic or mercury would not be a toxin (but would be a poison). ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/15 "2011-06-13T00:55:24Z")
Botulism can be removed by reverse osmosis. Everything you ever wanted to know about cyanobacteria, but were afraid to ask: [http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/water-eau/cyanobacter-eng.php](http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/water-eau/cyanobacter-eng.php) Boiling alone will not kill all the bad things in water, that’s why there are other methods of purification that are used to treat water. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/16 "2011-06-13T00:55:24Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin), a toxin (Greek: τοξικόν, toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced by living cells or organisms, so something like arsenic or mercury would not be a toxin (but would be a poison). Thanks. It seems “toxicant” is the term I should have used. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/17 "2011-06-13T04:49:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I know backpackers boil water 20 minutes to kill stubborn pathogens like giardia lamblia. A few drops of bleach per gallon is also effective. That would be one super pathogen what could survive 15 minutes of boiling. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/18 "2011-06-13T05:14:11Z")
Probably an element of confusion comes from the word “kill”. You can’t kill a toxin, it was never alive. Boiling or chemical treatment may cause some toxins to break down or become denatured enough that they are no longer harmful, but this is not killing it. Elemental contaminants like mercury, cadmium, lead, etc are clearly not in the least affected by boiling. Reverse osmosis or distillation will remove them. Botulism is a curious one. The toxin is destroyed in heating. As is the live bacteria. But the spores will survive boiling, and is where where the 112 C number comes from. But unless you intend using the water to make a preserved meat there is no danger in drinking it. The spores themselves require anearobic conditions, low acidity, and nutrients for some time to produce the toxin. Your gut isn’t the place for this. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/19 "2011-06-13T06:37:04Z")
My biggest concern is the illegal industrial dumping. It still occasionally happens. A truck at midnight, stops at a creek. Takes only minutes to pump out the sludge and they are gone. I recall last year a truck got caught locally in my area doing that. It was a small creek that eventually fed into a important water source. No telling what heavy metals and other toxins were in that stuff. The typical person at home won’t have the various methods needed to purify something like that. You can only do so much with a basic filter. Cattle are another big issue in the wilderness. You can be camped at a sparkling beautiful creek or river. A few miles up stream may be a cattle ranch. Cattle stand in the water, pooping away and peeing in that water. You’ll have no idea unless the water is tested. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255/20 "2011-06-13T13:32:18Z")
I agree. Heavy metals are the first thing that occurred to me, having just moved from what is called ‘chemical valley’ where such were always a concern in the local water supply. And no amount of boiling is going to remove heavy metals. And what they can do to a person over long-term exposure isn’t pretty. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-water-borne-illnesses-that-cannot-be-stopped-by-boiling-drinking-water/585255.md?page=2)