# Are these hostile liberals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531 "2008-11-01T02:51:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/21 "2008-11-01T19:05:32Z")
Wow. Did I see the same video you all did? I found most of the replies shown in the video to be unnecessarily hostile and snide. I don’t know about the interviews that weren’t shown, of course, and I can’t speak to the agenda of the folks that produced this, but the interviews they DID show were of snobby elitist bitches wallowing in their intellectual superiority to anybody that doesn’t agree with them. I consider folks of that ilk to be on about the same plane as the bible-bashing religious right, and I’ve got no use for any of them. One set is convinced that they’re holier-than-thou, the other is convinced that they’re smarter-than-thou, they’re all useless for any kind of intelligent discourse. (Nevermind that the snobby elitist bitches happen to be _right_ this time around, that don’t enter in to it. They’re still snobby elitest bitches.) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/22 "2008-11-01T19:25:09Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Wow. Did I see the same video you all did? 😕 “Is that your Halloween costume? Scary.” “No, I do not [plan on voting for McCain].” “No [I don’t have any friends who are supporting McCain]. If I did know [some such] people, well, they wouldn’t be my friends.” “I do know some McCain supporters, I wouldn’t say they’re close friends at all.” Several people who pass by without comment or with a simple “no.” One kid fakes the comedian out, pretending he’s going to high five him. “I don’t like McCain. I’m against everything he stands for. I’m absolutely not supporting him… I don’t know anyone around here who likes McCain.” “You gotta be kidding me. You guys don’t stand a chance.” “No. I hate Palin.” (Comedian asks, “You hate me?”) “Palin, not you. I don’t hate you. I wish you’d change your politics.” “I don’t want a t-shirt, thank you though for offering.” (Comedian: Can I change your mind?) “You can not change my mind.” Comedian asks if people would respond well if the McCain t-shirt were in the window at a clothing store. “Frankly, I don’t think so.” “You’re in the wrong neighborhood.” “You gotta go to the East Side for this one.” Where’s the rude? Where’s the hostile? (Snide, I’m not entirely sure of the meaning of.) “You’re in the wrong neighborhood,” when typed out of context, may look like a threat or something. But it wasn’t. The person was communicating a simple fact: McCain canvassing is not going to get much in the way of results in that neighborhood. The kid who did the fake high five was rude. The lady who said if someone were a McCain supporter they wouldn’t be her friend _could_ be exhibiting a kind of closed-mindedness. On the other hand she could be saying someone who supports McCain supports values she herself finds unconscionable, and it is of course difficult to be friends with people who have values you find to be repugnant. There’s nothing “elitist” or “stuck up” about that. It’s how most people are. I’m not seeing it. Where’s the rudeness or the elitism in that video? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/23 "2008-11-01T19:57:55Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’m not seeing it. Where’s the rudeness or the elitism in that video? > > -FrL- Compared to McCain/Palin supporters shouting “Kill Obama!” and telling his supporters to “get a job,” there is no rudeness. Amused dismissiveness, yes. As for elitism, I don’t think people really know what that word means. The people in that video do not support McCain and aren’t interested in revisiting that position a week away from the election. Were they really to be expected to, in order to be considered “open-minded”? They live in a neighborhood where that feeling is prevalent, just as most people tend to congregate in neighborhoods where they feel comfortable in the community. That is not elitism. I think you’d find very similar reactions to an Obama supporter in a heavily pro-McCain area. I didn’t hear anyone slagging off on McCain or on the guy, just flat rejection of him and his views. Boo hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/24 "2008-11-01T20:11:29Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > A reporter went to the Upper West Side of Manhattan to campaign for McCain. … > Then I watched the [video](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/31/willie-geist-campaigns-fo_n_139858.html). > … > I think the reporters just really wanted to believe that there is a left wing equivalent of the [racism](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20TdHjX2s) [and](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us) [xenophobia](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl2EndLZv7w)of the right. All the people in that video (back at the studio, discussing the “experiment”) are either complete morons or completely dishonest, or both. At the end of the video they have this exchange > [@](#): > > **Scarborough :** You don’t get this in Nashville, if you were trying to pass Obama literature, do you? > > **Grand Idiot:** No, they would disagree with you, but they would do it in a polite way. Yeah, right, that’s exactly what you would get in McCain-dominant parts of the country. As the links above by **Lakai** , and the links below show, that is definitely not the case, and the pro-McCain people in these videos are orders of magnitude more hostile than the pro-Obama people in the the Upper West Side video. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lPg0VCg4AEQ/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/lPg0VCg4AEQ?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KjxzmaXAg9E/hqdefault.jpg "The McCain-Palin Mob") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E) How can people be so deluded or so dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/25 "2008-11-01T20:29:50Z")
You left out: “I don’t know anybody of any intelligence that would vote for him.” “Uh, no. Cuz if I did know people, well, they wouldn’t be my friends.” Both of the above, and your 4th, 5th, and 6th quotes, were the worst. Those folks in particular came across as insufferable snobs. It isn’t just the words, it’s the attitude they were delivered with. Even the woman making the costume joke wasn’t able to resist being condescending. I mean, it’s the upper East Side. I’ve never been there, but I’m given to understand that those people have competitions with prizes for who can be the most pretentious. Of course they’re a bunch of intellectual art-snobs, and thats exactly why that shows’ producer went there to get his footage and try to make his point. But the thing is, he definitely got the footage he wanted. I think most folks watching that show that aren’t rabidly anti-Republican themselves will see exactly what he wanted them to see, and find themselves in agreement with his larger argument. I know this board is pretty strongly pro-Democrat. Coming from a guy who considers himself centrist, I think I’ve seen plenty of the “snob-liberal” mentality right here over the years I’ve been lurking. Whether I’m right or not, the perception is certainly out there, and thats what this guy is playing to. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/26 "2008-11-01T22:18:32Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > You left out: > > “I don’t know anybody of any intelligence that would vote for him.” > > “Uh, no. Cuz if I did know people, well, they wouldn’t be my friends.” > > Both of the above, and your 4th, 5th, and 6th quotes, were the worst. Those folks in particular came across as insufferable snobs. It isn’t just the words, it’s the attitude they were delivered with. Even the woman making the costume joke wasn’t able to resist being condescending. The guy was a joke. It would be hard not to treat him like one. He didn’t ask them to stop so that he could talk about McCain’s policies. All he did was offer them t-shirts and even asked if they were excited about McCain. How can anyone asking New Yorkers if they are excited about McCain be taken seriously? > [@Rapier42](#): > > I mean, it’s the upper East Side. I’ve never been there, but I’m given to understand that those people have competitions with prizes for who can be the most pretentious. Of course they’re a bunch of intellectual art-snobs, and thats exactly why that shows’ producer went there to get his footage and try to make his point. > > But the thing is, he definitely got the footage he wanted. I think most folks watching that show that aren’t rabidly anti-Republican themselves will see exactly what he wanted them to see, and find themselves in agreement with his larger argument. > > I know this board is pretty strongly pro-Democrat. Coming from a guy who considers himself centrist, I think I’ve seen plenty of the “snob-liberal” mentality right here over the years I’ve been lurking. Whether I’m right or not, the perception is certainly out there, and thats what this guy is playing to. The perception is out there and there are snobs out there. Just not in this video. You just can’t make people brushing you off look bad when you yourself look like a total jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/27 "2008-11-01T22:41:58Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > You left out: > > “I don’t know anybody of any intelligence that would vote for him.” I’ve watched the video and I’m still not seeing this one. Who says it? In any case, I agree that this would be the best example–and pretty much the only example–of anything approaching “elitism” in the video. > [@](#): > > “Uh, no. Cuz if I did know people, well, they wouldn’t be my friends.” I didn’t leave it out. It’s in the list, and then I commented on it again in the rest of the post. The comment occupied an entire paragraph, in fact. > [@](#): > > Both of the above, and your 4th, 5th, and 6th quotes, were the worst. Those folks in particular came across as insufferable snobs. It isn’t just the words, it’s the attitude they were delivered with. Even the woman making the costume joke wasn’t able to resist being condescending. This may be a regional thing or something. I can’t see anything snobby or particularly attitudinous about any of these guys. Indeed, some of them you are calling rude appear to me to be downright friendly. Could this be a country/city thing or something? Do you find it rude when people on the street don’t make eye contact with you, or when you wave at a stranger and they don’t wave back? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/28 "2008-11-01T22:58:20Z")
It’s wonderful how the quality of urban life keeps getting better. _“Pardon me, sir, but could you tell me how to get to the Empire State Building?” “Fuck off, you creep.”_ Manners for a modern city. –Lawrence Block ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/29 "2008-11-01T23:24:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ve watched the video and I’m still not seeing this one. Who says it? > > In any case, I agree that this would be the best example–and pretty much the only example–of anything approaching “elitism” in the video. > > I didn’t leave it out. It’s in the list, and then I commented on it again in the rest of the post. The comment occupied an entire paragraph, in fact. > > This may be a regional thing or something. I can’t see anything snobby or particularly attitudinous about any of these guys. Indeed, some of them you are calling rude appear to me to be downright friendly. Could this be a country/city thing or something? Do you find it rude when people on the street don’t make eye contact with you, or when you wave at a stranger and they don’t wave back? > > -FrL- The 3rd guy, looked like he was in a wheelchair maybe, says “I don’t know anybody of intelligence that would vote for him”. And he means it - that jackass is so impressed with his own intellect and insight that he clearly considers it impossible for anyone of intelligence to not share his opinion. The other is in your list, you’re right - I wouldn’t have left out the “uh” immediately preceding the “no”, though, because that “uh” wasn’t accidental. “Uh, no” is a word in her vocabulary that means “I’m going to pretend to consider this, but it’s going to be a half-assed insulting kind of pretend, because you’re clearly not smart enough to get this any other way”. No eye contact is almost expected on the street anymore. Not responding to a friendly wave is rude, I suppose, but pretty low on the list. It could be a regional thing anyway, I don’t know. I grew up in Eugene, I live in SLC now, both can be pretty friendly places I guess. What I see in that video are several people clearly convinced of their own superior intelligence because of their political affiliation, and convinced of the rightness of their political affiliation because of their clearly superior intelligence, etc. If you all don’t see it, then I dunno. In my perception, there’s just as much 'intellectual" superiority from the left as “moral” superiority from the right, and I think it’s all ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/30 "2008-11-02T00:01:22Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > If you all don’t see it, then I dunno. In my perception, there’s just as much 'intellectual" superiority from the left as “moral” superiority from the right, and I think it’s all ridiculous. Really? I am intellectually superior to those who persist in believing Obama is a Muslim; I am intellectually superior to those who believe Obama pals around with terrorists; I am intellectually superior to those who believe Obama refuses to say the pledge of allegiance. There are any number of commonly held beliefs by many on the right that demonstrate intellectual inferiority. Does that make me an elitist? If so, I’m buying the T-shirt, because I see no reason to identify with idiots. Fortunately, when the votes are counted on Tuesday night, I think I will find myself among good company, as the majority rejects the Republican machine that tried, and failed, to convince America that stupid was an attribute to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/31 "2008-11-02T00:27:06Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I mean, it’s the upper East Side. Correction: Upper _West_ Side. One of the passersby even tells Geist to go to the Upper East Side if he wants to find any McCain supporters. The fact that Geist can campaign for McCain in the Upper West Side, and be greeted with nothing more hostile than bemusement, speaks volumes to me. OK, maybe most people will walk by without acknowledging him–what do you expect? This is Manhattan! But the people who do stop and talk with him don’t strike me as “really, really hostile.” A couple of them come across as a bit snobbish, perhaps, but hostile? Give me a break. Contrast that with the atmosphere at the McCain-Palin rallies ([here’s an incident](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/mccain-miami-rally-getting-ugly-down.html) that just happened a couple of days ago) where people are calling Obama a “socialist,” a “communist,” a “terrorist,” and threatening his life. I’ve felt genuinely alarmed at the vitriol coming out of these rallies, and even more disturbed by Palin’s cutesy “Oops, did I do that??” demeanor. If conservatives really see a moral equivalency between the reactions of Manhattan Obama supporters and the reactions of McCain-Palin supporters, then _they_ are more deluded than I even imagined. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/32 "2008-11-04T08:08:58Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > I think Yoda used the expression first. Not sure about the date, but it was a long time ago. Being Yoda, what he actually said was “So much _not_,” but this sounded too much like “so much snot,” made test audiences giggle inappropriately, and was edited out before the film went into wide release. > [@Rapier42](#): > > “I don’t know anybody of any intelligence that would vote for him.” That one was regrettable, but the speaker was a very old man and, being the son of a very old man on the opposite side of the political spectrum, I’m inclined to cut him slack. Some of the others perhaps weren’t as polite as they could have been, but most the people shown were either minding their own business our engaging in polite disagreement. And this was the version that was edited. These were the examples chosen to make the presenters point! Basically, if these are hostile liberals, it’s no wonder we get our butts kicked by conservatives so often. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531/33 "2008-11-04T09:33:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Back in the studio, Mika Brzezniski and Mike Barnicle were deeply disturbed by the way Willie was received in the neighborhood. Barnicle said, “That is an important cultural piece, and it proves why so many **people are so right — no pun intended — to really loathe so many on the left.** Those people are so close-minded.” > [@](#): > > In Washington D.C., Joe Scarborough — who often complains that Democrats fail to see beyond the Upper West Side and Georgetown — said, “There’s some really, really hostile **people on the left who just think that they are intellectually superior**.” (bolding added) Interesting, just the opposite of what usually gets trotted out by the Common Scold: “Conservatives just think liberals have bad ideas. Liberals think conservatives are bad people.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-hostile-liberals/470531.md?page=1)