# Are these legitimate Olympic sports? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 16, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263 "2008-08-16T21:17:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/41 "2008-08-19T20:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=Jackknifed Juggernaut] If I follow your reasoning, success in games that aren’t purely chance or strategy, in which some people are better than others, must be due to athletic ability. [/QUOTE] Well, yes. > [@](#): > > I’d counter that this is circular reasoning. I simply don’t believe that having great target aiming ability is in any way related to athletic ability. To me, physical strength, speed and/or endurance are prerequisites to something being a sport. You need strength in your arms to be an elite archer. But “athletic” clearly is more than speed, strength, and endurance. There have been thousands of hockey players who were stronger and faster than Wayne Gretzky, so why was Wayne Gretzky a better hockey player than any of them? Michael Jordan was no less strong, fast or blessed with endurance when he played baseball as when he played basketball, so why was he such a great basketball player and a bad baseball player? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/42 "2008-08-19T21:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] Without arguing the exertion expended by ping pong players, I asked what about shooters who move little other than their index finger. She said that wasn’t a sport either. [/QUOTE] Ah, but medal-winning shooters move _nothing but_ their index fingers. There is a certain amount of physical effort and practice needed to control one’s breathing and heart rate enough to be able to put five shots through a dime at 50 meters, without touching the edge. And to be able to do that for hours on end in order to be successful at events like the Olympics requires (IMHO) just as much self-discipline and hard work as a competitor in any other sport puts into his or her training. How good a shot is your daughter? Maybe if she tried Olympic-style shooting, she would change her mind. (I’ve always wondered if those who claim such-and-such isn’t a sport and/or shouldn’t be in the Olympics have ever tried the sport they want to see gone, just to see how difficult and physically demanding it is.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/43 "2008-08-19T21:45:02Z")
A sport at minimum requires a jock strap. There must be a female clothing counterpart. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/44 "2008-08-20T18:57:51Z")
BMX riding, around a short track with jumps.lumps and turns. I understand the skill set but how do you convince a bunch of old fogies that it should be an Olympic Sport? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/45 "2008-08-21T01:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I have to ask again; if there’s no athletic ability involved, then why are some people better at it than others? They aren’t games of chance or strategy. [/QUOTE] Physical skill is different from athletic ability. Athletic ability is the physical portion of sport that is transferable from one sport to another sport. In other words, the U.S. Men’s gymnastic team would trounce the U.S. archery team at basketball, soccer, or whatever other sport you want to pick simply because of their huge advantage in athletic ability. Athletic ability is the running, jumping, strength, quickness, etc. part of sport. Physical skill is well, the skill part of a sport. It’s the ability to shoot the three pointer, hit a shot with an arrow, or make a goal. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/46 "2008-08-21T02:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Men’s gymnastic team would trounce the U.S. archery team at basketball, Maybe if the hoop was lowered. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/47 "2008-08-21T04:09:25Z")
[QUOTE=WarmNPrickly] Maybe if the hoop was lowered. [/QUOTE] With arrows there would be no air in the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/48 "2008-08-21T04:32:08Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] With arrows there would be no air in the ball. [/QUOTE] With arrows, there would be no gymnastics team. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/49 "2008-08-21T15:36:29Z")
IMO, the difference between a game and a sport is that games can be played while drinking. No one drinks beer and then swims 200 meters. Swimming is a sport. On the other hand I don’t know of anyone who plays ping-pong without having to move the plastic cups off one end of the table and possibly clean up beer/vomit. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/50 "2008-08-21T16:07:09Z")
Can we just go back to 10 weight classes for men and 8 for women in wrestling? If we can, you can have all the rhythmic synchronized whatever you want. ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/51 "2008-08-21T16:57:42Z")
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx] IMO, the difference between a game and a sport is that games can be played while drinking. No one drinks beer and then swims 200 meters. Swimming is a sport. On the other hand I don’t know of anyone who plays ping-pong without having to move the plastic cups off one end of the table and possibly clean up beer/vomit. [/QUOTE] You’re saying you’ve never had a mid-night swim after a few beers? Or that you’ve never run after something while drunk? Cause that’s about as close to proper ping-pong your likeness is. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/52 "2008-08-21T17:30:23Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] A sport at minimum requires a jock strap. There must be a female clothing counterpart. [/QUOTE] Sports bra. I’ve never needed it (seeing as I’m tiny), but for better-endowed women there’s even an extra guard to protect the girls when doing archery. I saw one woman hit them and, well, ‘ouch’ isn’t enough of a description. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/53 "2008-08-21T17:33:28Z")
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx] IMO, the difference between a game and a sport is that games can be played while drinking. No one drinks beer and then swims 200 meters. Swimming is a sport. On the other hand I don’t know of anyone who plays ping-pong without having to move the plastic cups off one end of the table and possibly clean up beer/vomit. [/QUOTE] So football (American, soccer, doesn’t matter which kind) is right out then. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/54 "2008-08-21T18:05:23Z")
_sigh_ Another thread full of specious definitions of what “sport,” “athleticism,” and “athletic ability” are. Not everyone is going to agree what the sports in the Olympics should be, which is why there is a committee. You know: the International Olympic Committee, who undoubtedly has spent far more time contemplating these issues than any of you could possibly imagine. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/55 "2008-08-21T19:09:02Z")
[QUOTE=Jackknifed Juggernaut] If I follow your reasoning, success in games that aren’t purely chance or strategy, in which some people are better than others, must be due to athletic ability. [/QUOTE] That’s precisely correct, yes. > [@](#): > > I’d counter that this is circular reasoning. Even if you disagree, it’s not circular reasoning. It’s simply a matter of what “athletic” means. Athletic, to me, means a degree of prowess in a physical activity. [QUOTE=tries] Athletic ability is the physical portion of sport that is transferable from one sport to another sport. In other words, the U.S. Men’s gymnastic team would trounce the U.S. archery team at basketball, soccer, or whatever other sport you want to pick simply because of their huge advantage in athletic ability. [/QUOTE] Without knowing if the U.S. men’s gymnastic team has any soccer or basketball players on it, it’s simply not possible to be sure of that. If they have nobody on the gynmastics team who knows how to play basketball and the archery teams has one person who does, they’ll not only lose a basketball game against the archery team, but will make fools of themselves doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/56 "2008-08-21T19:18:15Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I have to ask again; if there’s no athletic ability involved, then why are some people better at it than others? They aren’t games of chance or strategy. [/QUOTE] I meant that particular quote is an example of circular reasoning…not your whole argument, which is perfectly valid…and wrong! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/57 "2008-08-22T02:11:40Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Without knowing if the U.S. men’s gymnastic team has any soccer or basketball players on it, it’s simply not possible to be sure of that. If they have nobody on the gynmastics team who knows how to play basketball and the archery teams has one person who does, they’ll not only lose a basketball game against the archery team, but will make fools of themselves doing it. [/QUOTE] This just dodges the argument. The point is that if I tell you I am going to pit the archery team vs. the gymnastic team in some sport, without telling you anything about the sport, you are going to take the gymnastics team. Why? Because they are stronger, faster, quicker, bigger, and more agile than the archery team. In other words, they have more athletic ability. I mean, how exactly do you explain why athletes have to retire when they get old except for reduced athletic ability? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/58 "2008-08-23T23:01:53Z")
I was in the clubhouse bar after golf, and apparently there was team synchro swimming on. Man, that is some silly shit. Might as well include square dancing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/59 "2008-08-23T23:12:48Z")
[QUOTE=treis] This just dodges the argument. The point is that if I tell you I am going to pit the archery team vs. the gymnastic team in some sport, without telling you anything about the sport, you are going to take the gymnastics team. Why? Because they are stronger, faster, quicker, bigger, and more agile than the archery team. In other words, they have more athletic ability. I mean, how exactly do you explain why athletes have to retire when they get old except for reduced athletic ability? [/QUOTE] If you follow that line of reasoning, gymnastics isn’t a sport, since I’d take Olympic hockey players (the kind played on ice, not the silly “Field” kind) over gymnasts in almost any other team sport. And, again, it still wouldn’t be a guaranteed thing. At what point do you determine something’s got enough of the particular “Athleticism” you prefer to make it a sport? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263/60 "2008-08-24T00:50:07Z")
[QUOTE=Jackknifed Juggernaut] cricket - don’t know if the 2 week time frame would work [/QUOTE] [Cricket in the Olympics?](http://www.cricketeurope4.net/DATABASE/ARTICLES/articles/000060/006081.shtml) > [@](#): > > Back in 1900, Devon and Somerset Wanderers, representing Great Britain, played the French Athletic Club Union, who mostly consisted of British embassy staff, in a cricket match in Paris. Twelve years later, this was retrospectively recognised as part of the second Olympic Games. > > Cricket has not featured in the Olympics since then, … > > Recent events though have raised the possibility of a return to the Olympics for cricket, probably the Twenty20 format, though this won’t happen until, quite appropriately, 2020 at the earliest. [Twenty20 Cricket](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty20) > [@](#): > > Twenty20 is a form of cricket, originally introduced in the United Kingdom for professional inter-county competition by the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB), in 2003. Both teams have a single innings and bat for a maximum of 20 overs. > > A Twenty20 game is completed in about two and half hours, with each innings lasting around 75 minutes, thus bringing the game closer to the timespan of other popular team sports such as football. It was introduced to create a lively form of the game which would be attractive to spectators at the ground and viewers on television and as such it has been very successful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-legitimate-olympic-sports/460263.md?page=4)