# Are these phrases racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444 "2004-03-04T01:43:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/1 "2004-03-04T01:43:29Z")
Are these phrases considered racist? Is it in bad taste to use these terms in polite or casual conversation? \*Call a spade a spade To be gipped (gypped?) Harder than Chinese math\* I have heard or used all of these fairly recently, and was wondering if using them was offensive or a faux pas. Thanks for any insight. Also, if you can provide a cite for any of these, I’d appreciate it as a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/2 "2004-03-04T01:53:18Z")
I would never in a million years have thought “…spade a spade” could be considered racist. But googling it, it appears that the wholly innocent phrase has become somewhat associated with unpleasant racist slang. But not intractibaly so. Unless somebody objects to the use of the word spade in all situations, they should not claim this phrase to be racist. ‘Gypped’ - never heard it, but I suspect it’s an uunpleasant racist term (there’s a recent thread on Gypsies and travellers which demonstrates the tensions present, if you want to search for it) The last one, I don’t have anything to comment, having never heard it and Google not helping. ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/3 "2004-03-04T01:53:37Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Are these phrases considered racist? Is it in bad taste to use these terms in polite or casual conversation? > > \*Call a spade a spade > > To be gipped (gypped?) > > Harder than Chinese math\* > > I have heard or used all of these fairly recently, and was wondering if using them was offensive or a faux pas. Thanks for any insight. Also, if you can provide a cite for any of these, I’d appreciate it as a bonus. I’ve wondered about the 1st. Never heard (nor do I understand) the last. I have heard that the second comes from to be “gypsied” and is therefore similar to being “jewed down” so yes, I would think it is in bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/4 "2004-03-04T01:57:20Z")
The term “gypped” is a racial slur, being derived from prejudice against Gypsies. I don’t think the “spade” remark was ever racist until the PC experts decided it just must be. I’ve never heard the phrase about Chinese math. Doesn’t sound particularly racist to me, but I’m sure _someone_ (not of Chinese heritage) will be offended. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/5 "2004-03-04T01:59:00Z")
I guess “gypped” would be more of an ethnic slur, rather than racist. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Cillasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Cillasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cillasi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/6 "2004-03-04T02:04:53Z")
“harder than chinese math” probably refers to using an abacus. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/7 "2004-03-04T02:06:22Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Are these phrases considered racist? Is it in bad taste to use these terms in polite or casual conversation? > > Call a spade a spade Absolutely not. This is actually a mis-translation of a common ancient greek expression. It has nothing whatsover to do with race. If you want the details, try a search. It’s been discussed several times. In fact, I think there was a thread on it a week or two ago. > [@](#): > > To be gipped (gypped?) Well, “culturalist,” anyway. I believe it makes reference to Rypsies, or Roma as they are politely referred to. N.B. There is no racist connotation in “Roma tomatoes.” > [@](#): > > Harder than Chinese math Probably. It doesn’t seem to be a very common expression however, so you’re likely to get mostly puzzled looks. I, for one, hadn’t heard it. Doing Roman math is quite difficult enough, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![callslugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8797f3/32.png) [@callslugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callslugger)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/8 "2004-03-04T02:24:29Z")
I’ve only heared of Gipped, and now that you mention it, because i haven’t thought about it before, well yes i think it would be considered a rude comment, though once again, i didn’t think about the actual meaning Good Question!! ---
**Author:** ![seaworthy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@seaworthy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seaworthy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/9 "2004-03-04T02:27:55Z")
As to the call a spade a spade, you could avoid sounding like a racist if you used the British phrasing- call a spade a bloody shovel. My friend’s dad was from England and he was quite fond of that phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Reader99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Reader99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reader99)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/10 "2004-03-04T07:14:31Z")
i always thought the spade phrase had to do with correct terms for gardening implements. but previous post is absolutely right: [http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxtocall.html](http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxtocall.html) but after citing the origins of the phrase in 423 _BC_, the writer still thinks it should be avoided because of the possibility of contemporary misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/11 "2004-03-04T08:33:57Z")
The only time I’ve ever heard something like the third one was in a Tom Waits song “Pasties and a G-string”. > [@](#): > > crawlin on her belly > shakin like jelly > I’m getting harder than Chinese algebra ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/12 "2004-03-04T08:39:57Z")
I would rank them as: Not -ist, -ist, Not -ist, but likely ignorant, it has a tone of “nyuck nuck” over it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/13 "2004-03-04T09:11:02Z")
Probably opening a can of worms here, but anyone heard the phrase: [as chaotic as a] Chinese fire drill? I did believe it’s racist, but then I went to China, and I believe now it is merely _culturist_. Many simple activities (such as lining up for a bus; getting off a plane; etc.) in China - cities especially - descend into total chaos and anarchy; I have never been unfortunate enough to have been in a fire drill in China, but I don’t doubt that it would be amongst the most chaotic human situations on earth. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/14 "2004-03-04T10:46:36Z")
The third one doesn’t even sound culturist to me (unlike, for example, the ‘chinese fire drill’ or ‘chinese chicken farm’ lines). It just sounds really difficult: the hardest langauge to speak combined with everyone’s least favorite subject from high school. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/15 "2004-03-04T11:21:33Z")
I enjoy spending a lot of time watching muscle cars and imports, and have really felt disturbed with the use of the phrase “rice burners” when referring to import cars. I know that a lot of oriental people would be highly offended by that so I really try my best to refrain from using it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/16 "2004-03-04T12:20:03Z")
> [@Reader99](#): > > but after citing the origins of the phrase in 423 _BC_, the writer still thinks it should be avoided because of the possibility of contemporary misunderstanding. I really think that’s oversensitivity - and certainly it’s not a view shared by mainstream and PC-aware media: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern\_ireland/profiles/321205.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/profiles/321205.stm) [Kindly manner concealed callous killer | UK news | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,758762,00.html) (tenth paragraph) ---
**Author:** ![MadScientistMatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@MadScientistMatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadScientistMatt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/17 "2004-03-04T12:30:48Z")
The version I’ve usually heard is “tougher than Chinese algebra,” not “math.” I think the point there is trying to do algebra with an alphabet that has several thousand letters, most of which the average American can’t recognize. That would certainly drive me crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Elret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Elret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elret)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/18 "2004-03-04T12:44:07Z")
I’ll admit, my sister and I grew up using the term “gypped”, but _knowing_ it was sort of naughty. That is why we used it, because Mom told us not to. Once I got a bit older and better understood why it wasn’t nice, I certainly stopped. Which is why I was _horrified_ to hear the term used in Disney’s remake of _The Parent Trap_. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/19 "2004-03-04T13:13:58Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > I enjoy spending a lot of time watching muscle cars and imports, and have really felt disturbed with the use of the phrase “rice burners” when referring to import cars. I know that a lot of oriental people would be highly offended by that so I really try my best to refrain from using it. And most Asians would be offended by your use of the word “oriental”. ---
**Author:** ![pcroughn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@pcroughn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pcroughn)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444/20 "2004-03-04T13:50:45Z")
“Calling a spade a spade” is not a racist phrase. **GorillaMan** and **Chefguy** hit the nail on the head. The PC Nazis get all worked up over anything that sounds remotely racist. Ironically this is the same lack of understanding (OK, ignorance) that causes racism in the first place. It’s similar to the word “Niggard” which means stingy. The word has no association with anything of african decent and come to us from Scandinavia. Despite this, people are up in arms over it. They get all hysterical and try to ban books. (I think the book in question is “The Great Gatsby”, but I’m not sure.) I think we need to “nip” this kind of ignorance in the bud. (no offense to the Japanese) It is our duty, as those in the know, to educate our fellow “man”. (no offense to women) If we don’t we’ll lose Doo- **WOP** music! Gyp probably does come from gypsies. I’ve always used this word and never made the connection before. (There’s some of that ignorance again.) So should I stop? The word is common english and I don’t think anyone is complaining about it. I hear about “indian giver” and “that’s mighty white of you”, but I don’t hear much on gyp. I, too, have heard the phrase as “Chinese Algebra”. I always thought it meant that something is very hard. Asians are often sterotyped as being better at math than non-asians. So it makes sense that the algebra taught and used in China would be more difficult to understand than the algebra we learn in the west. (not my idea, just an interpretation of the phrase) But is claiming a culture is better than others racist (culturist)? Yes, it _has_ to be. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-phrases-racist/232444.md?page=2)