# Are these rules too complex? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798 "2008-10-07T03:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/1 "2008-10-07T03:35:27Z")
I’m thinking of starting a new game in this forum. I want to complete my current RPG, which may take a while, but I’ve been itching to try something a little more different and light fun. Basically, it’s a medieval jousting game. I’ve gotten not quite half way through typing out the rules. It occurs to me that while the average Doper is above average intelligence, the rules themselves might be a turn-off to most would-be players. Give a read through what I’ve done so far, and tell me at which point your eyes glaze over and you said “tl;dr”: Step 1: Choose your social status Step 2: Assign your stats Step 3: Calculate skill bases for skills Step 4: Assign Veteren Points Step 5: Calculate skill MLs Step 6: Determine character name, location, liege lord, and heraldry Step 7: Calculate END, Dodge, and MOV Step 8: Purchase steed, armor, and weapons Step 9: Calculate encumbrance Step 10 Calculate EMLs Step 1: Choose your social status The tourney is open to rich knight and poor knight alike. Knights of high social status have more power challenge knights of lower social status. They also have more silver with which to purchase steeds and equipment. The tradeoff is lower skill SBs. Start with 50 option points. The cost, in option points, for social status is as follows: Knight-bachelor: 0 pts Knight-patrician: 1 pt Fighting Order or Bailiff of the Hundred: 2 pts Baron or Royal Guard: 4 pts Earl or Sheriff: 6 pts Example: Sir Noname decides to be a knight of a fighting order. This costs him 2 OPs, leaving him with 48 OPs left. Step 2: Assign your stats You have the following stats. These are inborn or conditioned attributes. Strength (STR) Stamina (STA) Will (WIL) Dexterity (DEX) Agility (AGL) Each of these stats has a value of 03 to begin with. Distribute your remaining OPs among them. No stat may exceed a value of 18. Example: Sir Noname assigns the following values to his stats: STR: 10 STA: 8 WIL: 8 DEX: 13 AGL: 9 Total = 48 Adding 3 to each gives him: STR: 13 STA: 12 WIL: 10 DEX: 16 AGL: 12 Step 3: Calculate skill bases for skills Each knight will have the following skills. Each skill listed has four pieces of information. The first three are three stats upon which to build the skill. The fourth is the skill’s opening mastery level, which will be explained in step 5. Riding DEX AGL WIL OML=SB_1 Initiative AGL WIL WIL OML=SB_4 Unarmed STR DEX AGL OML=SB_4 Axe STR STR DEX OML=SB_3 Club STR STR DEX OML=SB_4 Flail DEX DEX DEX OML=SB_1 Polearm STR STR DEX OML=SB_2 Shield STR DEX DEX OML=SB_3 Sword STR DEX DEX OML=SB\*3 Calculate each skill base by averaging the three appropriate stats. Round off. Example: Sir Noname Riding DEX AGL WIL = 16 + 12 + 10 = 38/3 = 12.6, rounded up to 13. Initiative 11 Unarmed 14 Axe 14 Club 14 Flail 16 Polearm 14 Shield 15 Sword 15 Step 4: Assign Veteren Points Knights have combat experience. This is reflected in veteran points. Increase the OML of each skill by spending VPs on it as follows: Increase of 1: 1 point Increase of 2: 3 points Increase of 3: 7 points Increase of 4: 15 points Note that no skill may be improved more than once to reduce the cost. You have a total of 30 VPs to spend. Example: Sir Noname Riding +3 (7 points) Initiative +0 Unarmed +0 Axe +1 (1 point) Club +0 Flail +3 (7 points) Polearm +4 (15 points) Shield +0 Sword +0 Total=30 VPs The new OMLs are: Riding OML/4 Initiative OML/4 Unarmed OML/4 Axe OML/4 Club OML/4 Flail OML/4 Polearm OML/6 Shield OML/3 Sword OML/3 Step 5: Calculate skill MLs Multiply the SB times the modified OML to get mastery level (ML). If an ML exceeds SB+100, reduce it to SB+100. Riding 13_4=52 Initiative 11_4=44 Unarmed 14_4=56 Axe 14_4=56 Club 14_4=56 Flail 16_4=64 Polearm 14_6=84 Shield 15_3=45 Sword 15\*3=45 Note that skill MLs are percentages, so anything under 50 is more likely to fail than succeed. A skill of greater than 75 is pretty good, and a skill of over 100 is excellent. Also note that there will be a couple more modifications to them. Step 6: Determine character name, location, liege lord, and heraldry Make up a name for your character. Knights patrician, barons, earls, and sheriffs will have a name assigned by the GM. Location and liege lord will also be assigned. Optionally, make up your heraldry. Get as fancy as you want with this, but simple is OK as well. To make up your own, choose one, two, or three of the following colors: Argent (White) Gules (Red) Or (Gold) Azure (Blue) Sable (Black) Vert (Green) Then choose a charge, such as a weapon, animal, or other symbol. Note that highewr ranking characters may have one of these assigned. Also note that no two knights may have the same heraldry unless they are from the same clan or order. Make a picture and post it to the Web if you want. Go nuts! This heraldry will be displayed on both your shield and surcoat. Example: Sir Noname becomes Sir Reginald Obris Knight of the Lady of Paladins in Meselynshire Liege lord: Church of Larani Heraldry: Argent and Gules, a sword inverted Step 7: Calculate END, Dodge, and MOV Calculate END (Endurance) as an average of STR, STA, and WIL. Dodge is AGL\*5. MOV (Movement rate) is AGL. Example: Sir Reginald Obris END = 12 Dodge = 45 MOV = 9 Step 8: Purchase steed, armor, and weapons You have an amount of starting cash with which to buy a steed, armor, and weapons. Starting cash, in silver pence (d), is as follows: Knight-bachelor: 1,000d Knight-patrician: 3,000d Fighting Order: 3,500d Bailiff of the Hundred: 4,000d Baron: 6,000d Royal Guard: 5,000d Earl: 12,000d Sheriff: 10,000d You will need to purchase, at the minimum, one primary weapon, one shield, and a steed. You will also need to bring at least three jousting poles. (The wealthy bring more.) Armor is highly recommended, and wealthier knights are expected to be very well armored. As well, there is an entry fee to the tourney. Secondary (and even tertiary) melee weapons are recommended. Spares may be purchased, as weapons tend to break. However, spares may not be carried into combat. (A squire may hand you a spare, if you have one.) Price list: Entry fee: Earl: 460d Baron: 240d Knight patrician: 120d Knight bachelor: 60d Foreign knight: double charge Fighting order: No charge Royal guard: 24d Steeds: Step 9: Calculate encumbrance Step 10 Calculate EMLs ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/2 "2008-10-07T04:02:28Z")
Yes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/3 "2008-10-07T14:12:57Z")
Believe it or not, I would need to see more rules. I don’t see enough details into what the skills and items and stats directly do in the jousts. Also is there a none jousting part to the game? If it is strictly combat, simplify the rules. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/4 "2008-10-07T18:27:06Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Yes. I thought so. It seemed so easy in my head, but all typed out like that, it’s pretty involved. I wonder if it might be wiser to have some pre-made templates that can be adjusted in an easy way. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/5 "2008-10-07T18:37:37Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Believe it or not, I would need to see more rules. I don’t see enough details into what the skills and items and stats directly do in the jousts. Also is there a none jousting part to the game? If it is strictly combat, simplify the rules. MORE rules?!? I’m still playing with the concept, but the basic concept is this: Step 1: Build a character Step 2: Issue a challenge, accept a challenge, or get a randomly assigned foe Step 3: Issue orders to your character. (ex. Lean in on first pass, hunker down on 2nd pass, use mace during melee.) Step 4: I will resolve the combat behind the scenes, then describe it in prose form, declaring a winner. Step 5: Victor repeats steps 2-4 until the field of 128 has been narrowed to one clear winner. I would, of course, explain what desirable numbers would mean so that players can optimize their characters. I’m also thinking of allowing people to play ladies who can bestow favors (and thus, bonuses) on knights, but so far any attempt to do so has resulted in pretty bad rules. I’d probably include at least some elements of role-playing as well, but the joust would be the main plotline. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/6 "2008-10-07T18:42:20Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > MORE rules?!? > > … > > I’d probably include at least some elements of role-playing as well, but the joust would be the main plotline. If it is strictly combat, I think you should reduce the rules, make a few things simpler. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/7 "2008-10-07T20:35:19Z")
How about this? Instead of doing all the hard math to choose stats, calculate skills, etc., players can directly choose their skills directly. Let’s say riding, initiative, and 4 weapons at 50 each, with a pool of 200 points with which to increase those skills up to 100. Then it’s a matter of choosing weapons, a steed, and one of, say, five available suits of armor. Would that be more palatable? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/8 "2008-10-07T20:39:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > How about this? Instead of doing all the hard math to choose stats, calculate skills, etc., players can directly choose their skills directly. Let’s say riding, initiative, and 4 weapons at 50 each, with a pool of 200 points with which to increase those skills up to 100. Then it’s a matter of choosing weapons, a steed, and one of, say, five available suits of armor. > > Would that be more palatable? That sounds much better. If there is going to be little role playing, no need to go into small detail. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-rules-too-complex/466798/9 "2008-10-09T16:18:52Z")
I lost focus around Step 5. What are the “New OMLs”? “OML/4” is not explained. Then into Step 5, you use “SB” which has not been defined. Where are the numbers in the example coming from? I can tolerate complex rules, especially if they’re easy to code up on a spreadsheet “character sheet”. But how things affect each other need to be clear. That is, what I am gaining or giving up by moving a point from here to there? In a final product, you need to start out with flavor text and a clear description of possible goals or victory conditions.