# Are these school fees unusual? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043 "2010-09-08T13:06:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/21 "2010-09-08T19:56:31Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > I was under the impression that door-to-door selling was being discouraged these days because we are more fearful of unknown evil monstors lurking in various suburban shrubbery waiting to abduct children.. Well, they send home fundraiser kits. They don’t specifically say “go door to door” and they warn you to be safe, but it’s still annoying. We always look through it and buy something ourselves if there is anything worth while in there, and leave it at that. We don’t let him go around selling things in the neighborhood even if that’s what the school is hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/22 "2010-09-08T19:59:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s probably a lot of different factors that add up. Is this theater class scheduled after regular school hours? If so, the school is paying for utilities and employees beyond their regular schedule. The school’s insurance policy probably only covers routine classroom activities - any out-of-class programs likes sports or theatre classes are going to require extra coverage. Is there any travel involved? More extra insurance plus gas and a driver’s overtime. It’s these invisible costs, not costumes and sets, that are costing money. It’s a regular class; it’s his elective for the semester. They have after school rehearsals, and the actual shows are in the evening, though. There is no travel involved. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/23 "2010-09-08T20:14:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not being a parent I have no pup in this fight. But I can see the logic of activities fees. These activities do have costs. So should the costs be borne by the people who choose to participate or should everyone pay for the activities of the few? Everybody pays the cost of having public schools in the first place. And I’d say that’s appropriate, as everybody reaps the benefits, such as they are (whether you have kids in the schools or not). > [@Vihaga](#): > > The only problem I have with it is that as the schools cut their budgets more and more, things that used to just be classes (art and music, for example) become “activities” in which a student can’t participate without paying the fee. So then a kid’s education becomes dependent on their family’s ability to pay, which seems to kind of go against the idea of having public schools in the first place. Exactly. Charging “activity” fees is not fundamentally different from charging tuition. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/24 "2010-09-08T20:19:18Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > There’s probably a lot of different factors that add up. Is this theater class scheduled after regular school hours? If so, the school is paying for utilities and employees beyond their regular schedule. The school’s insurance policy probably only covers routine classroom activities - any out-of-class programs likes sports or theatre classes are going to require extra coverage. Is there any travel involved? More extra insurance plus gas and a driver’s overtime. It’s these invisible costs, not costumes and sets, that are costing money. > > It’s a regular class; it’s his elective for the semester. They have after school rehearsals, and the actual shows are in the evening, though. There is no travel involved. Someone has to pay for the space to practice after school, as well as renting out the facilities for the show nights. It’s not just the space, either- somebody has to pay a janitor or two, some school districts require security for any such events, too. Back when budgets weren’t so slim, schools cheerfully ate the above costs. Now, someone has to pay it and when it comes to non necessary activities (drama, forensics, band), we’re expected to eat the cost. At this point, it’s either: activity fee or no extra curricular activity. You could, of course, volunteer to help the activity in question find a corporate sponsor or two. That’s a nice way of making it so kids don’t have to pay to do something that’s truly enriching for them. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/25 "2010-09-08T20:44:43Z")
I agree that the fee’s existance is reasonable, but the actual amount is high. But I also believe that Creative Arts and Athletics, by necessity, MUST take a back seat to academics. Because, realistically, only a fraction of a fraction of these kids will make their lving in these endeavors, amd if we shortchange education, we’re robbing them of the “Plan A” they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/26 "2010-09-08T22:17:05Z")
That’s pretty normal in my experience. I’d pay that much or more for sports and orchestra, but I live in a low tax state (CO.) My HS freshman plays volleyball and they aren’t even providing transportation to most away games. The kids have to organize getting to and from games on their own. They are providing buses to only two away games, and they are both about 50 miles away. A couple of games they get transport to the game, but not home. This is in a very wealthy school district. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/27 "2010-09-08T22:19:19Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > [@anu-la1979](#): > > > > I went through a MA public school system (Lexington, for the record) and this is very regular. I remember my parents getting hit with bus fees way back in the 90s. They promptly cancelled and dropped my sister off at elementary school…I was already in middle school and we lived within walking distance of that and LHS. > > > > My parents poured thousands into the public school programs in the mid-90s, and this is even while living in one of the most upscale public school systems in the state. Lexington has one of the cross-examination best debate teams in the country, travels nationally, and both my sister and I made it on. It was something like $1500-$2000 “suggested donations” per child to participate even back then. The team had 30 members (you had to be chosen to be on past the first year), which basically meant they had something like a $60,000 budget at the time from parental contributions alone (they also got more from the school). > > > > Of course it’s a crapton of money, that’s how the schools build well-known programs. Then again, my brother-in-law went to Andover and it makes my high school look positively pauperish in comparison. > > It should be noted that there is a world of difference between a competitive league debate team and a competitive circuit debate team. You went to a circuit school, which is a whole different world. $2000 per person for a circuit school really isn’t bad at all- I’ve heard it go well into 10k+ for kids to compete in programs like that now. Hence the whole debate (ha!) about competitive (circuit) forensics being inaccessible to poorer schools (check out the documentary _ **Resolved** _ for more insight on this). It was $2000 in 1994, which was actually quite a bit of money back then. I’m sure it’s nearing 4K or something now. Also keep in mind that it was the two of us, which was 4K during the year, and about 14K during the summer. Since we were both on the varsity team, we were required to go to the summer camps. And this was in the 90s. I mean, I’m not diminishing that it probably costs a college tuition-worth these days and those sums look paltry to you, but it was a pretty large sum of money to put down post-recession. Anyway, the point is that it is very very normal to have to shell out money for school on the parents’ parts. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/28 "2010-09-08T22:54:47Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > Not being a parent I have no pup in this fight. But I can see the logic of activities fees. These activities do have costs. So should the costs be borne by the people who choose to participate or should everyone pay for the activities of the few? > > The only problem I have with it is that as the schools cut their budgets more and more, things that used to just be classes (art and music, for example) become “activities” in which a student can’t participate without paying the fee. So then a kid’s education becomes dependent on their family’s ability to pay, which seems to kind of go against the idea of having public schools in the first place. Seriously. Not being able to go on a school trip is one thing (you might miss some bonding and memories, but you’ll get over it). Not being able to do the very things you love, or that could mean the difference between getting into college and not? Pretty horrible, and embarrassing for the kid. I understand why the fees are there – and remember, and thank, all the amazing teachers who put on plays and oversaw clubs at my school for what I’m sure was little or no money – but hopefully there can be some sort of anonymous donation fund for kids who can’t pay the fees, depending on the school. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/29 "2010-09-08T23:12:02Z")
As I said, schools have to deal with the realities of their budgets. Voters often oppose raising taxes to pay for a higher budget so the school has to live with what it has. An arts program is nice but what do you cut out of the budget to pay for it? Math? History? Lights and heat? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/30 "2010-09-08T23:16:09Z")
> [@](#): > > … bus fees way back in the 90s … 😕 :smack: … For me, “way back” was way before the 90’s!! 😃 I don’t remember _any_ fees at our public schools back in the 50’s and 60’s. It’s not hard to think of fee-free schools as part of the whole Land of Opportunity idea. When I hear of school fees, etc. I’m saddened with what I see as lost American values. Whatever financial problems schools may have today, I trust Dopers will agree there is still enormous wealth in the Home of the Brave – even if it isn’t being diverted to schools. (I’m afraid I’ll now be branded a Marxist who hates successful people and thinks Obama was born in America. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/31 "2010-09-08T23:25:16Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > > It should be noted that there is a world of difference between a competitive league debate team and a competitive circuit debate team. You went to a circuit school, which is a whole different world. $2000 per person for a circuit school really isn’t bad at all- I’ve heard it go well into 10k+ for kids to compete in programs like that now. Hence the whole debate (ha!) about competitive (circuit) forensics being inaccessible to poorer schools (check out the documentary _ **Resolved** _ for more insight on this). > > It was $2000 in 1994, which was actually quite a bit of money back then. I’m sure it’s nearing 4K or something now. > > Also keep in mind that it was the two of us, which was 4K during the year, and about 14K during the summer. Since we were both on the varsity team, we were required to go to the summer camps. And this was in the 90s. > > I mean, I’m not diminishing that it probably costs a college tuition-worth these days and those sums look paltry to you, but it was a pretty large sum of money to put down post-recession. > > Anyway, the point is that it is very very normal to have to shell out money for school on the parents’ parts. My point, you missed it entirely. I wasn’t diminishing the amount of money your parents spent (the $10k point was commiseration over how expensive such a thing can be), but instead, I was pointing out that the average league debate team is very different from a fancy circuit team, which is what you were on. While your parents no doubt paid a lot for you to compete in debate in high school, it’s like comparing. . . the regular high school volleyball team to the club volleyball team. Or the regular cheerleading team to the fancy club cheer group that travels all around the world. I suppose what I’m saying is: your experience in paying that much is not the standard in the debate world. Circuit debate is an exceptional . . well, exception. No regular league parent would be expected to pay a few thousand bucks for their kid to debate, I promise you. If they did, there would be no league program. And I speak about this as someone who has been involved in debate for 11 years, 7 in a coaching capacity. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/32 "2010-09-08T23:26:07Z")
On my son’s list of school supplies required by his public Elementary School this year was a ream of paper. I won’t be surprised when his younger brother has toner and ethernet cables on his list. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/33 "2010-09-08T23:35:18Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > On my son’s list of school supplies required by his public Elementary School this year was a ream of paper. I won’t be surprised when his younger brother has toner and ethernet cables on his list. That’s because schools have hardcore cut down teachers’ ability to print (around here, at least). They get a specific allotment of paper and if they go over it, they have to buy it themselves. I think where I work, one of the teachers (I’m just a coach) said it was one box of paper per semester-- and he teaches 5 periods of 30-40 kids a pop. I’d imagine for smaller kids, you have way more print outs than high school students. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/34 "2010-09-08T23:38:53Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > On my son’s list of school supplies required by his public Elementary School this year was a ream of paper. I won’t be surprised when his younger brother has toner and ethernet cables on his list. Qty Second Grade 2010/2011 supply list 3 Antibacterial wipes (no baby wipes, please) 1 24ct Crayola crayons 1 Ream 8-1/2" X 11" white copy paper (Last Name A-M) 1 Washable Crayola Thick Classic Markers 1 Ream 8-/12" x 11" colored copy paper (Last Name N-Z) 2 Pkg. Dry Erase Markers (Assorted Colors) 1 Student Planner free from the PTA 1 Crayola 7" Colored Pencils (12 ct) 2 Magic Rub Erasers (White) 2 Pkgs. Glue Sticks 1 Elmer’s White School Glue (4 oz.) 1 Fiskars Scissors (5" Sharp) 1 Small plastic pencil box 2 Kleenex Tissues 2 Boxes Baby Wipes (Not antibacterial) 2 Packages 3" x 3" Post It Notes 2 Packages #2 Pencils (12 ct ea. 24) 1 Gallon Size Zip Lock Bags (Boys) 1 Sandwich Size Zip Lock Bags (Girls) ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/35 "2010-09-09T00:36:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t remember _any_ fees at our public schools back in the 50’s and 60’s. I went to high school in the late 70s. I can’t recall any fees. The only thing you had to pay for was your gym uniform and the school year book (if you wanted one). Clubs you might have had to pay for. Like if you needed special equipment or parts but there was no fee just to be in it. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/36 "2010-09-09T01:26:47Z")
Our school district went to “pay to play” a few years ago, but my son wasn’t in high school yet so I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to it. I assumed it applied solely to extracurricular activities. Wrong. We pay an activity fee ($150, I think) for him to participate in orchestra, which is a credit class. There are also lab fees for his science classes and a fee for his French class. (Not as much as the activity fee, but fees nonetheless.) I believe they give multi-activity kids and multi-kid families a price break on the activity fees. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/37 "2010-09-09T01:45:55Z")
Academic fees are absurd! Punishing kids so theycan’t take a CLASS? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/38 "2010-09-09T01:58:34Z")
My son’s middle school charges an extracurricular fee of $90 that covers all extracurricular activities they can do all year. So that fee is enough for him to do basketball and band now, and he’ll do track and yearbook later. ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/39 "2010-09-09T23:38:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Qty > Second Grade 2010/2011 supply list > 3 Antibacterial wipes (no baby wipes, please) > 1 24ct Crayola crayons > 1 Ream 8-1/2" X 11" white copy paper (Last Name A-M) > 1 Washable Crayola Thick Classic Markers > 1 Ream 8-/12" x 11" colored copy paper (Last Name N-Z) > 2 Pkg. Dry Erase Markers (Assorted Colors) > 1 Student Planner free from the PTA > 1 Crayola 7" Colored Pencils (12 ct) > 2 Magic Rub Erasers (White) > 2 Pkgs. Glue Sticks > 1 Elmer’s White School Glue (4 oz.) > 1 Fiskars Scissors (5" Sharp) > 1 Small plastic pencil box > 2 Kleenex Tissues > 2 Boxes Baby Wipes (Not antibacterial) > 2 Packages 3" x 3" Post It Notes > 2 Packages #2 Pencils (12 ct ea. 24) > 1 Gallon Size Zip Lock Bags (Boys) > 1 Sandwich Size Zip Lock Bags (Girls) Holy crap! How much did all that cost you? ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043/40 "2010-09-10T16:59:43Z")
I don’t really understand how all this is accepted. Here in NJ, at least a couple of decades ago when I was a teacher, we were forbidden to charge any fee or require that the kids provided any education-related materials. This extended to all sports and clubs, and included things like pencils and book covers. Yes, book covers, which you can make from a paper bag. The basis was that to do so stigmatized and/or disadvantaged students from lower income or dysfunctional families. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-school-fees-unusual/553043.md?page=3)