# Are these very insulting Atheist billboards attacking Christianity & Mormonism really the way to go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357 "2012-08-23T05:33:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/181 "2012-08-25T20:47:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not without credible confirmation. I would trust Knief to give accurate information about Christians about as much as I trust Jack Chick to give accurate information about atheists. People don’t mistrust Jack Chick because he is a Christian-they mistrust him because he continuous writes things that are demonstrably false. Now, why do you mistrust Knief? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/182 "2012-08-25T23:57:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > People don’t mistrust Jack Chick because he is a Christian-they mistrust him because he continuous writes things that are demonstrably false. Now, why do you mistrust Knief? Who appointed you Lorax? I’m a person and I distrust Jack Chick because he has an agenda that he is pushing and he is willing to say whatever he thinks will serve that agenda. And I distrust Knief for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/183 "2012-08-26T00:07:02Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > I think he’s trying to imply the atheists received some some prank phone calls, got scared and took down the billboards. > > You know how intimidating those pious religious practitioners can be. You mean the ones who do things like murder doctors for performing abortions and beat homosexuals to death? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/184 "2012-08-26T01:04:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You mean the ones who do things like murder doctors for performing abortions and beat homosexuals to death? There’s approximately 240,000,000 Christians in the United States. By your estimate, how many of them have killed a doctor or a homosexual? It doesn’t have to be an exact figure; round it off to the nearest 10,000,000. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/185 "2012-08-26T01:19:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s approximately 240,000,000 Christians in the United States. By your estimate, how many of them have killed a doctor or a homosexual? It doesn’t have to be an exact figure; round it off to the nearest 10,000,000. Define “kill”. Far more support the killing & aid and abet the killers than _personally_ get their hands dirty, and plenty simply try to arrange matters so that homosexuals die rather than directly killing them; like deliberately hampering having anything done about AIDS in the hopes of killing as many homosexuals as possible. Or cops deliberately letting gay domestic violence situations slide in hopes it escalates to murder, or avoiding answering calls for help from gay cops in hopes they are murdered. And others kill homosexuals accidentally, like sending their homosexual children off to be “re-educated” and the kid dies from the starvation and beatings. And then there’s the question of whether or things like funding and promoting the genocide-the gays law in Uganda count; American evangelicals are a major factor behind that. Counting the indirect methods and the supporters who do things like organize and run cover for the killers/beaters, I’d take a guess at something in the 50-100 million range. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/186 "2012-08-26T04:47:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Who appointed you Lorax? I’m a person and I distrust Jack Chick because he has an agenda that he is pushing and he is willing to say whatever he thinks will serve that agenda. And I distrust Knief for the same reason. There is hard evidence that Jack Chick is willing to say whatever he thinks will serve his agenda. What, besides a “She is on the other side, therefore she _must_ be using the same methods!” false equivalency do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/187 "2012-08-26T06:33:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is hard evidence that Jack Chick is willing to say whatever he thinks will serve his agenda. What, besides a “She is on the other side, therefore she _must_ be using the same methods!” false equivalency do you have? What do you mean she is on the other side? I’m an atheist so theoretically Amanda Knief and I are on the same side. As for what her methods are, I’m judging them based on what her methods are. I read the billboards and I don’t see any significant difference between them and a Chick tract. So I judge Chick by the content of his tracts and Knief by the content of her billboards. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/188 "2012-08-26T06:38:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As for what her methods are, I’m judging them based on what her methods are. I read the billboards and I don’t see any significant difference between them and a Chick tract. Yet again the double standard. They aren’t anywhere near as bad as what Chick puts out. But they are atheist, so are automatically portrayed as being just as bad as the worst the believers put out. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/189 "2012-08-26T07:38:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yet again the double standard. Yes, it is. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They aren’t anywhere near as bad as what Chick puts out. But they are atheist, so are automatically portrayed as being just as bad as the worst the believers put out. Oh…sorry…my mistake. I thought you were making a confession. I don’t see a double standard in judging Chick and Knief by the same standard - they’re both putting out hateful and offensive propaganda. Now you can argue that hateful and offensive propaganda is okay as long as the cause is just but that, to me, is a clear double standard. Either hate propaganda is wrong or it isn’t - it can’t be right for one side and wrong for the other. As for the argument that Chick is worse because his claims are more extreme - well, I have time accepting that argument from somebody who just posted he believes fifty million American Christians (minimum) are murderers. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/190 "2012-08-26T07:52:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see a double standard in judging Chick and Knief by the same standard - they’re both putting out hateful and offensive propaganda. Except that Knief’s claims appear to actually mostly be _true_ judging by the article in the OP, while Chick’s are gibbering lunacy. Knief’s propaganda is mostly “hateful” because the target of that propaganda is genuinely just that awful. It _should_ be hated. Chick on the other hand just makes things up; he promotes hatred over transgressions that _are not real_. So no, they aren’t at all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/191 "2012-08-26T08:48:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except that Knief’s claims appear to actually mostly be _true_ judging by the article in the OP, while Chick’s are gibbering lunacy. Knief’s propaganda is mostly “hateful” because the target of that propaganda is genuinely just that awful. It _should_ be hated. Chick on the other hand just makes things up; he promotes hatred over transgressions that _are not real_. > > So no, they aren’t at all the same. Yes, they are the same. Jack Chick believes God exists. You believe God doesn’t exist. Both of you are convinced that what you believe must be true. Neither of you have any proof that your belief is correct and the other’s is wrong. I think a lot of the things Chick believes are wrong and only exist in his imagination. But I think the same thing about you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/192 "2012-08-26T10:03:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, they are the same. Jack Chick believes God exists. You believe God doesn’t exist. Both of you are convinced that what you believe must be true. Neither of you have any proof that your belief is correct and the other’s is wrong. Oh, please. Trying to equate Chick’s elaborate religious fantasies with disbelief in religion is ridiculous. Atheism is logically consistent and consistent with all known facts; Chick’s beliefs are irrational and wildly contradict the known facts. Even by religious standards he’s a lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/193 "2012-08-26T15:10:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, they are the same. Jack Chick believes God exists. You believe God doesn’t exist. Both of you are convinced that what you believe must be true. Neither of you have any proof that your belief is correct and the other’s is wrong. I think that in this case the burden of proof lies with those who believe that something _does_ exist. We generally don’t ask people to prove that there are not invisible, massless, odorless, silent objects existing in their homes; neither is it reasonable to expect someone to “prove” that there is no God. On the other hand, if someone wants to claim that there is a God who has a measurable impact on the world around us, it shouldn’t be too difficult to get proof of such a thing. That said, I am on record as thinking that the American Atheist billboards are over-the-top and offensive, and my opinion has not changed about that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/194 "2012-08-26T15:25:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > That said, I am on record as thinking that the American Atheist billboards are over-the-top and offensive, and my opinion has not changed about that. Perhaps nasty sniping billboards that condemn should be left to [del]Christians[/del]professionals? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/195 "2012-08-26T15:42:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps nasty sniping billboards that condemn should be left to [del]Christians[/del]professionals? Let’s just say that if a major weather event happened to take out all of the ones on I-71 between Columbus and Cincinnati, I wouldn’t shed any tears. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/196 "2012-08-26T15:45:30Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Let’s just say that if a major weather event happened to take out all of the ones on I-71 between Columbus and Cincinnati, I wouldn’t shed any tears. I’m going to _have_ to ask for a cite-I’m pretty sure that if the good folks of Ohio saw such things there would be as large campaign, with politicians and news reports, to put a halt to such crudeness, right? [crickets chirping]Right?[/crickets chirping] ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/197 "2012-08-26T15:51:38Z")
Ha. As if. Although I have heard a fair amount of bitching about them, and you do see the occasional editorial about how obnoxious they are. No major campaign, though, shockingly. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/198 "2012-08-26T16:14:28Z")
I think ads and propaganda insinuating Obama is associated with supernatural evil forces is indescribably offensive and there is nothing sufficiently anti-christian anyone could ever put on a billboard worse than what they habitually put up with impunity. Fuck them. Quit putting the onus on non-christians to turn the other cheek all the fucking time. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/199 "2012-08-26T16:22:29Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I think that in this case the burden of proof lies with those who believe that something _does_ exist. We generally don’t ask people to prove that there are not invisible, massless, odorless, silent objects existing in their homes; neither is it reasonable to expect someone to “prove” that there is no God. On the other hand, if someone wants to claim that there is a God who has a measurable impact on the world around us, it shouldn’t be too difficult to get proof of such a thing. I agree. And that’s why I’m an atheist. But I try to maintain a sense of perspective about it. I realize there’s a difference between _believing_ there is no God and _knowing_ there is no God. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/200 "2012-08-26T16:31:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think ads and propaganda insinuating Obama is associated with supernatural evil forces is indescribably offensive and there is nothing sufficiently anti-christian anyone could ever put on a billboard worse than what they habitually put up with impunity. > > Fuck them. > > Quit putting the onus on non-christians to turn the other cheek all the fucking time. Who said it on non-Christians? BOTH sides need to shut the fuck up. I mostly just roll my eyes when I see those stupid billboards. Once in a blue moon, I’ll see one that’s funny, or one that’s hateful. But most of the time, they’re just pathetic dick swinging. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357.md?page=11)