# Are these very insulting Atheist billboards attacking Christianity & Mormonism really the way to go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357 "2012-08-23T05:33:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/81 "2012-08-23T16:31:34Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I just read the Wikipedia article about this woman, and there’s something I don’t get at all about her murder case. > > The Murrays were kidnapped and murdered by a trio, and two of the culprits went on to kill the third one. > > Now, when they were tried : > > -Karr was found not guilty of kidnappind, guilty of extortion and sentenced to life > > -Water was found guilty of extortion, kidnapping and murder and sentenced to only 20 years. > > How do these sentences make any sense 😕 I don’t recall exactly, but I think they both copped pleas. That said, I also think that Waters died three years after getting arrested. Interestingly enough, he stole 600k and bought gold coins with it, which were then stolen from a storage unit by a random break in. After the Murray’s went missing, Waters put out a book to ‘explain’ their disappearance. It was only through a private investigator and a journalist that justice was finally delivered. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/82 "2012-08-23T16:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Lowry] Have some ads that compare the rates of giving to charity, volunteering, and incarceration or other good and bad things between atheists and religious people. [/QUOTE] Just a hint - I don’t think you will want to publicize those rates very much, at least not in America. > [@](#): > > Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). [Cite](http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577). > [@](#): > > States with the least religious residents are also the stingiest about giving money to charity, a new study on the generosity of Americans suggests. [Cite.](http://www.startribune.com/nation/166744606.html?refer=y) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/83 "2012-08-23T16:36:45Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a reasoned argument on a billboard. If you want to make a detailed and reasonable argument, that’s not your format. A billboard is something that is meant to be seen and understood in a couple of seconds by someone who isn’t paying full attention. So if you want to have an argument about religion I don’t know why you would even go with a billboard in the first place. The ads are more dickish than anything else even though the Mormon one is accurate. So there are many, many better ways to have an actual discussion about this. I will say that I got tired quite a while ago of the conversation about whether a particular message from a particular atheist group is “counterproductive” or if it “hurts atheists” or something. By and large it’s not counterproductive and doesn’t hurt because this is what most people think atheists are like anyway, and if you think one billboard from a couple of people can represent the views of an inherently disorganized group, I don’t think a reasonable discussion was going to change your mind anyway. If you can grasp the fact that a couple of people did this on their own, then there’s a chance for a better conversation, billboard or no billboard. But while these billboards are bad, it’s also true there’s room for both reasoned discussion and atheists forcefully demanding some respect. At some point I think some people came up with the idea that the only acceptable options are meek politeness and academic discussion and self-assertion and satire and other things are not on the table, which is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/84 "2012-08-23T16:38:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think that religion should be eliminated from humanity, including “those few”. I don’t agree that we need _more_ of them. So are you saying we should have less caring people on this planet? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/85 "2012-08-23T16:42:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s been tried; they whip up just as much controversy and typically get banned. Anything is going to whip up controversy - it seems like the nut cases (on every issue ) have unlimited time to do this. Ignore them. And remember that few of the nutcases have an attitude of “be religious, any religion”. Many of them would complain about billboards of any religion other than their own. Whoever is putting up these billboards shouldn’t be worried about them. The organization should be concerned about their own goals and how best to achieve them. If I were putting up these billboards with the goal of improving the perception of non-atheists , in addition to **Sam Lowry** ’s recommendations, I would probably try to publicize the fact plenty of school prayer lawsuits , etc have been filed by religious people. Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses , and probably others. Lot’s of people “blame” atheists for the lack of organized school prayer, but it’s not only atheists who have an interest in keeping church and state separate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/86 "2012-08-23T16:46:33Z")
Let’s compare [billboards.](http://www.dangeroustalk.net/billboard-wars.html#christian) edited to add: Check out the one from Kentucky-“If God doesn’t matter to him, do you?”, with a kid pointing a rifle at the viewer. Lovely. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/87 "2012-08-23T16:46:48Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Oh, I see. So you’re not really doing these things to serve others…you’re conspicuously doing them in hopes that someone will casually ask why you’d wash a car for free, so that you can guilt them into listening to you for as long as you want to bloviate I mean witness. Cool tactic. Well, my side serves in the food shelf and washes cars for free, donates more to charity, and occasionally behaves like jerks. Your side donates significantly less, and occasionally behaves like jerks. (Probably less often, because there aren’t as many of you, but still.) Yet there are a lot more people who think atheists are assholes than who think religious people are assholes. So, as Dr. Phil would say, how’s that working out for ya? 🙂 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/88 "2012-08-23T16:51:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, let’s polarize the sides with an “us vs. them” approach. That’ll get the point across in a nice, smooth way. It’s worked really well so far in every single other aspect of culture and society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/89 "2012-08-23T16:52:42Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > If I were putting up these billboards with the goal of improving the perception of non-atheists , in addition to **Sam Lowry** ’s recommendations, I would probably try to publicize the fact plenty of school prayer lawsuits , etc have been filed by religious people. Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses , and probably others. Lot’s of people “blame” atheists for the lack of organized school prayer, but it’s not only atheists who have an interest in keeping church and state separate. It’s a billboard, not a pamphlet. Can you do it in one or two lines, with one or two syllable words? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/90 "2012-08-23T16:55:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, my side serves in the food shelf and washes cars for free, donates more to charity, and occasionally behaves like jerks. Your side donates significantly less, and occasionally behaves like jerks. (Probably less often, because there aren’t as many of you, but still.) > > Yet there are a lot more people who think atheists are assholes than who think religious people are assholes. > > So, as Dr. Phil would say, how’s that working out for ya? > > 🙂 > > Regards, > Shodan Treating atheists like assholes(at best) has been a long-standing Christian tradition. So far, rolling over and playing dead has been to advantage of Christians, so we know that _that_ isn’t working at all well for us. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/91 "2012-08-23T16:58:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s a billboard, not a pamphlet. Can you do it in one or two lines, with one or two syllable words? Related question: has anybody ever changed his mind about _any_ complex issue based on a billboard? Forget religion, I’d be hesitant to get off the highway and stop at a restaurant based on a billboard. Maybe American Atheists Inc. should save its billboard money and communicate through some other route. Your link indicates what I think everybody should’ve already known: by and large billboards are for the loud and the stupid. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/92 "2012-08-23T17:04:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s a billboard, not a pamphlet. Can you do it in one or two lines, with one or two syllable words? Remembering that I’m not a marketer how about something like : Separation of Church and State- It’s not just for atheists. Religious people have filed lawsuits fighting organized prayer in schools- and if you were a Christian living in a majority Jewish area , so might you. Three lines and a couple of three syllable words, but I’ve certainly seen billboards with more text than this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/93 "2012-08-23T17:08:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Related question: has anybody ever changed his mind about _any_ complex issue based on a billboard? Forget religion, I’d be hesitant to get off the highway and stop at a restaurant based on a billboard. Maybe American Atheists Inc. should save its billboard money and communicate through some other route. Your link indicates what I think everybody should’ve already known: by and large billboards are for the loud and the stupid. I’m afraid that there is enough research out there that shows that advertising works, and that sharp, concise messages can influence the public, otherwise so much money wouldn’t be spent on them. They are used to change minds, but they are also used to \* reinforce\* an already held position. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/94 "2012-08-23T17:09:54Z")
That doesn’t say anything for billboards in general or anything about this particular topic. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/95 "2012-08-23T17:10:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > So are you saying we should have less caring people on this planet? Religion does not equal caring. If you believe people need religion to be caring, that says more about you than him. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/96 "2012-08-23T17:12:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, my side serves in the food shelf and washes cars for free, donates more to charity, and occasionally behaves like jerks. Your side donates significantly less, and occasionally behaves like jerks. (Probably less often, because there aren’t as many of you, but still.) > > Yet there are a lot more people who think atheists are assholes than who think religious people are assholes. > > So, as Dr. Phil would say, how’s that working out for ya? > > 🙂 > > Regards, > Shodan Considering that there are many more religious people than atheists, it stands to reason that more people think atheists are assholes. They also equate them, as I have pointed out, with murderers and rapists. For a majority of people to think that religious people are assholes, then most religious people would have to think that religious people are assholes. And that just ain’t gonna happen. ETA: As far as giving more to charity, does that include tithing or giving to churches as charity? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/97 "2012-08-23T17:13:52Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Religion does not equal caring. If you believe people need religion to be caring, that says more about you than him. You are misrepresenting my statement, please read my above threads. I agree that religion does not equal caring, never has never will, but irrelevant to this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/98 "2012-08-23T17:18:09Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > ETA: As far as giving more to charity, does that include tithing or giving to churches as charity? From **Shodan’s** link: > [@](#): > > The SCCBS asked respondents whether and how much they gave and volunteered to “religious causes” or “non-religious charities” over the previous 12 months. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/99 "2012-08-23T17:19:48Z")
I don’t believe in gods, but the billboards are insulting, which equals “Stupid” in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/100 "2012-08-23T17:21:27Z")
Ah, thanks…I forgot that he had linked in a previous post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357.md?page=6)