# Are these very insulting Atheist billboards attacking Christianity & Mormonism really the way to go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357 "2012-08-23T05:33:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/121 "2012-08-23T20:04:32Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Honest question: what would such a billboard look like in your mind’s eye? I think if you read my other posts you’ll see I don’t think there is any such thing. **Czarcasm** was describing the typical religious billboard reader as an idiot, and I was trying to point out that it’s pointless to try to communicate this way with an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/122 "2012-08-23T20:35:29Z")
When I was a believer I donated 10% of my income to a church, blissfully unaware that the church was using an estimated 0.7% of that money for charity. As an atheist, I am donating a much smaller percentage of my income. But what I donate goes to actual charities, not to a real estate corporation posing as a church. So despite Shodan’s cites, a FAR greater portion of my income is now used for charity. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/123 "2012-08-23T20:38:10Z")
I piss and moan a lot about living in Maine, but we do have one thing going for us: No billboards allowed. Hallelujah. I friggin’ hate billboards. Goddamned eye-sores, one and all. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/124 "2012-08-23T21:05:31Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I piss and moan a lot about living in Maine, but we do have one thing going for us: No billboards allowed. > > Hallelujah. I friggin’ hate billboards. Goddamned eye-sores, one and all. Seriously??? Wow what a heavenly place it must be. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/125 "2012-08-23T22:01:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think if you read my other posts you’ll see I don’t think there is any such thing. **Czarcasm** was describing the typical religious billboard reader as an idiot, and I was trying to point out that it’s pointless to try to communicate this way with an idiot. Fair enough. Though like others, I may be a dipshit, but the Mormon’s “magic underwear” reference does make me smile. What the fuck is that all about anyway? Kind of sounds like Superman wearing his undies over his superhero kit. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/126 "2012-08-23T22:21:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I recall reading as a teen an article by a bishop in the religion section of the local newspaper; he talked about how it was better to “kill for Kali” than it was to be an atheist, because at least someone killing for a “false goddess” upheld the virtue of faith. Plus, she’s hot! I mean! All those arms, and often topless, and a tongue that Gene Simmons would die for! I just gotta find the local church of Kali. Jhirnee! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/127 "2012-08-23T23:22:10Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > And remember that few of the nutcases have an attitude of “be religious, any religion”. Many of them would complain about billboards of any religion other than their own. I partially disagree. While I’m sure they’d prefer that everyone adhere to the “right” religion, there does to be a general attitude of “anything but atheism”. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Basically, the argument seems to boil down to: “Well he started it!” > > Especially this [charming example](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/13/atheist-slavery-billboard-pennsylvania-raises-tempers_n_1342268.html). Actually, isn’t that exactly what several people have said they wanted? It’s an argument against the actual content of a religion; and given how most Christians talk about the supposed goodness of Christianity and how many biblical literalists there are, pointing out evil in the Bible is relevant. > [@](#): > > “That image, that was my ancestors. That represents their struggle and all the pain they went through,” he said. “I don’t think a lot of people understood how offensive that is. Schoolchildren will just see that black face and the words. They don’t understand the context.” And guess what? Christianity, including I’m sure _that very line_ was used to motivate and justify what happened to his ancestors. > [@RedFury](#): > > Fair enough. Though like others, I may be a dipshit, but the Mormon’s “magic underwear” reference does make me smile. > > What the fuck is that all about anyway? Kind of sounds like Superman wearing his undies over his superhero kit. IIRC it was mentioned in another thread that it’s a holdover from Freemasonry; apparently a fair number of their traditions & rituals come from there. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/128 "2012-08-24T00:15:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …IIRC it was mentioned in another thread that it’s a holdover from Freemasonry; apparently a fair number of their traditions & rituals come from there. Thank you. \ So what do Masons or Mormons mean the bizarre underwear bit to mean?\ Free reign: A precedent to “Depends”? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/129 "2012-08-24T00:23:18Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > \ So what do Masons or Mormons mean the bizarre underwear bit to mean?\ [Temple garments](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment) ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/130 "2012-08-24T01:19:59Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Pretty hardcore atheist here and I don’t see anything necessarily wrong or offensive about the sign. However, I think it’s pretty dumb to advertise stuff like this on billboards and bumperstickers and whatnot. Pretty useless and just clutters stuff up. Oh, come on. The signs are _meant_ to be offensive. Something like “Christianity: Sadistic God, Useless Savior” can’t possibly be taken any other way. It’s not meant to persuade, convert, educate, liberate or open a conversation. It’s meant to piss off Christians of all denominations. If you don’t see anything offensive about that sign, the sign is a total failure. I don’t really care about the signs. They’re not going to affect me in any way at all. They’re just stupid shit for sophomoric jerks who want to feel all brave and revolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/131 "2012-08-24T01:26:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nothing atheists do or don’t do will make the believers respect atheists. There may be other reasons to oppose such billboards, but there’s no point in worrying about making them like or respect us. We can’t. We will always be monsters as far as they are concerned. That after all is exactly the attitude that millennia of atheists either not existing or saying virtually nothing produced. Nonsense. Some Christians may think some, or all, atheists are monsters. Most Christians probably don’t give atheists much thought. And many, probably even most, of us have plenty of atheist friends and acquaintances and relatives for whom we have lots of respect. Love, even. Christians are annoyed by the in-your-face atheists the same way atheists (and plenty of Christians) are annoyed by the proselytizing, witnessing, testifying, science-rejecting, woman-oppressing fundamentalists. Fortunately those atheists and those Christians are a distinct minority. The situation is admittedly different in, say, Pakistan than it is in France or Germany or Canada or the United States. But in the Western world, atheists are hardly living under the oppressive jackbooted heel of the religious. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/132 "2012-08-24T01:34:17Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Just like I would, just once, like to hear a Christian disassociate himself from the televangelists, the door-to-door Christianity pushers, the bill boards and the bumper stickers, the groups that hand out Chick comics, the local churches that mass mail invitations, the people who try to force Christianity through laws or in schools, or any of the other groups who constantly try so very hard, day after day, to push their religious beliefs on everyone else. I disassociate myself from the televangelists, the door-to-door Christianity pushers, the bill boards and the bumper stickers, the groups that hand out Chick comics, the local churches that mass mail invitations, the people who try to force Christianity through laws or in schools, or any of the other groups who constantly try so very hard, day after day, to push their religious beliefs on everyone else. Happy? Although I admit I don’t see what the big deal is about a church mailing out invitations. You don’t like it? Throw it out. That’s what I do with, say, credit card offers. I don’t see why an invitation to a church is any more offensive than junk mail. Other than that, though, hey, I absolutely disassociate myself from that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/133 "2012-08-24T02:49:11Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Nonsense. Some Christians may think some, or all, atheists are monsters. Most Christians probably don’t give atheists much thought. And many, probably even most, of us have plenty of atheist friends and acquaintances and relatives for whom we have lots of respect. Love, even. Nonsense. The polls consistently show that most believers hold atheists in _great_ disdain; not that they don’t care, not that they respect us, but that they look at atheists as scum. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Christians are annoyed by the in-your-face atheists the same way atheists (and plenty of Christians) are annoyed by the proselytizing, witnessing, testifying, science-rejecting, woman-oppressing fundamentalists. Fortunately those atheists and those Christians are a distinct minority. No; at least in this country, the science hating, oppressive fundies are the norm not the exception. And Christians have hated atheists since long before any dared be “in-your-face”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/134 "2012-08-24T02:59:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense. The polls consistently show that most believers hold atheists in _great_ disdain; not that they don’t care, not that they respect us, but that they look at atheists as scum. > > No; at least in this country, the science hating, oppressive fundies are the norm not the exception. And Christians have hated atheists since long before any dared be “in-your-face”. Where do you live? Saudi Arabia? If the imaginary America that exists in your mind were real and fundamentalism was the norm, then there wouldn’t be any controversy over issues like abortion or same-sex marriages or school prayer. The Christian Taliban would just issue its decrees and the Holy Guard would enforce them. People who tried to post a billboard with an atheist message would be arrested and imprisoned (or executed). The reality is that fundamentalists are just a vocal minority. All people like you do is convince normal mainstream Christians that the fundamentalists are right about atheists. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/135 "2012-08-24T03:06:42Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Seriously??? Wow what a heavenly place it must be. I actually don’t understand why more atheists don’t live up here. We have the lowest rates of church attendance to begin with, and I know I’m always baffled by threads about people being harassed at work over their lack of religion because religion simply isn’t talked about at work. If it wasn’t for JWs showing up every five years or so to see if I’m satisfied with my current religion provider, I’d never talk about religion with anyone but close friends and family. Anyway, the billboards. If ticking people off is the goal, they’ll be effective. I doubt they’ll change as many minds as they probably hope, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/136 "2012-08-24T03:08:49Z")
As an atheist myself, I’d find myself utterly friendless and completely ostracized if I took the kind of tone those ads do. Religion doesn’t usually come up in conversation for me, but when it does and someone asks what I think, I tell them honestly “I don’t believe in any gods, and I think we’d all be better off if religion just went away.” I take great caution not to criticize someone’s particular beliefs, even though inside I may be thinking, “You’re a pretty intelligent guy, except for that whole believing in supernatural stuff.” Long story short, I secretly agree with the billboards. Religion just opens the path for people to get practice lying to themselves, until they’re able to convince themselves of whatever falsehood suits their world view. They call their hate “love,” congregate weekly for prayers that aren’t any less creepy or more effective than voodoo rituals, and they think _I’m_ the strange one because I don’t do it too. A very large portion of the country is freakin’ nuts! They call their self-delusions “enlightenment.” They call their bigotry “patriotism.” They call their imposition of belief into our legal system and schools “freedom.” Everything about Christianity in the USA is fucked-up all the way to the core, and there’s not even one redeemable quality about it. But pretty much all my friends, family, and coworkers are religious. If I didn’t give a bit of ground on the issue, bite my tongue, and avoid talking about religion at all, I’d be utterly alone. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/137 "2012-08-24T04:11:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Where do you live? Saudi Arabia? If the imaginary America that exists in your mind were real and fundamentalism was the norm, then there wouldn’t be any controversy over issues like abortion or same-sex marriages or school prayer. The Christian Taliban would just issue its decrees and the Holy Guard would enforce them. People who tried to post a billboard with an atheist message would be arrested and imprisoned (or executed). No, because unlike someplace like Saudi Arabia they can’t agree on whose One True Way should be forced on everyone else. Most support for religious freedom in America comes from believers who know they wouldn’t be the ones getting to dictate official truth. And I’d say that [43% of Americans being creationists](http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx) is enough to qualify anti-science fundamentalism as the norm; especially when most of the remainer are theistic evolutionists. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/138 "2012-08-24T04:38:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually, isn’t that exactly what several people have said they wanted? It’s an argument against the actual content of a religion; and given how most Christians talk about the supposed goodness of Christianity and how many biblical literalists there are, pointing out evil in the Bible is relevant. > > And guess what? Christianity, including I’m sure _that very line_ was used to motivate and justify what happened to his ancestors. Most people who drive by aren’t going to automatically think of atheists putting it up – they’ll think white supremacists did it. Or, if they see the atheist organization label, they’re not going to think, “Oh my god, the Bible is EVIL!” They’re going to think, “Wow, atheists are ASSHOLES!!!” And it’s just going to be another viscious circle. Same as those Christian billboards that tell people “Repent or you’ll burn in flames forever!” They don’t make people want to become Christians. They just make people think that Christians are intolerant jackasses. People aren’t going to change their beliefs based on a billboard – they’ll only think the other side is composed of a bunch of douchebags. See, the thing is, most religious people, and most atheists aren’t assholes. But it’s the assholes you hear about the most. Who wants to read about, “Nice Atheist/Theist goes out for a walk with his dog and says hi to his neighbors?” No, you want to hear about the guy who puts signs up in his yard telling everyone to “REPENT!!! THE END IS NEAR!!!” Or, “GAYS ARE GOING TO HELL!!!” Controversy sells. I don’t care what people believe, as long as they aren’t assholes. The assholes are the ones I don’t like. I have friends and family with all different kinds of beliefs, and I don’t really give a shit, because quite honestly, it’s not that important to me to worry about\*. It only becomes a problem when people start trying to push their beliefs on people. Don’t tell people they’re deluded/going to hell/stupid/wrong church/whatever. \*Root for the wrong sports team, though, and all bets are off. (And why is it always atheists vs. Christians? Why is it never say, Jews vs. Wiccans, or Hindus vs. pagans, or Muslims vs. Buddhists or whatever.) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/139 "2012-08-24T04:41:17Z")
It may surprise some people here (if anyone has ever paid attention to my views on “new Atheist” rhetoric), but I really do not have a problem with these. They seem to be poking fun at Christianity as a belief system rather than insulting Christians as people, telling them that they are morons for believing in it. From my perspective, that makes a big difference. It is a pretty ludicrous belief system, when looked at with clear eyes, but, for historical reasons, many very smart and/or thoroughly decent people believe firmly in it. It is false and gratuitously personally insulting (and thereby, I believe, counterproductive to the cause of reason) to maintain that believers must be either idiots or evil; however, it is not false, and not personally insulting, to point out that Christianity (and other religious belief systems) are riddled with absurdities and both logical and ethical contradiction. I would not have put these up myself, but atheists have just as much of a right to beard in public as do Christians (and Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.), and Og knows, we all get plenty of at-least-equally-inept Christian signage pushed in our faces all the time. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357/140 "2012-08-24T04:44:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > (And why is it always atheists vs. Christians? Why is it never say, Jews vs. Wiccans, or Hindus vs. pagans, or Muslims vs. Buddhists or whatever.) Right, followers of different religions have never been known to criticize or fight with one another over their differences. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-these-very-insulting-atheist-billboards-attacking-christianity-mormonism-really-the-way-to-go/632357.md?page=8)