Are these very insulting Atheist billboards attacking Christianity & Mormonism really the way to go?

[bldysabba]

@Dioptre

The ads are bad because they are confusing, not because they are insulting. “Mormonism: values invented by a lying cheating fraudster” and “Good people reject most of what the bible teaches, including rape and murder” would be more insulting, but also more effective.

I agree with this. These ads are bad not because they’re angry or offensive or whatever. They’re bad because the messaging is terrible. I’d be ok with atheist ads being much more insulting as long as they were smarter.

“Have you spoken to your invisible friend today?”

[kanicbird]

Well it’s a way to go if you want to know that the religious and atheists are really no different and just bash each other, which would hopefully have people reject both and just seek out a God who loves all and wants none of this hurtful nonsense.

YMMV

[Sicks_Ate]

@Eliahna

It’s a piece of the building. It’s a 17 foot chunk of debris that just happens to resemble a cross. I wouldn’t be in favour of the museum showing a cross that was purchased, but it’s just a chunk of wreckage that some people felt comforted by at a really horrible time. Now some people want it removed because it’s special to some other people, no other reason. That’s petty, childish and stupid, and it’s embarrassing to see the word “atheist” attached to these actions because we’re all being tarred with the same brush.

But taking ‘comfort’ in a piece of rubble that happens to look like a religious symbol (specifically your religion) isn’t childish and stupid?

[Der_Trihs]

@Eliahna

It’s a piece of the building. It’s a 17 foot chunk of debris that just happens to resemble a cross. I wouldn’t be in favour of the museum showing a cross that was purchased, but it’s just a chunk of wreckage that some people felt comforted by at a really horrible time.

No, it isn’t.

Two days after the attack, construction workers found a steel girder joint approximately 10 feet across and 20 feet high and weighing 10 tons amid the rubble. By October 2001, Franciscan (Catholic) Friar, Brian Jordan ‘blessed’ this piece of building debris and began holding religious services at the site.

Eventually, the girder set was removed to St. Peter’s Roman Catholic Church on 22 Barclay Street in Manhattan. While there, the girder set was further modified and trimmed to look more like the Latin cross of Christian tradition.

<snip>

The WTCMF completed the construction of the National September 11 Memorial and Museum in July 2011. On July 23, 2011, the WTCMF arranged to have the girder set transported from St. Peter’s Roman Catholic Church and lowered in through the roof of the museum. The cross was placed on a special mounting designed to highlight the girder set as the museum’s centerpiece. In a private religious ceremony, Friar Brian Jordan consecrated the girder set. No other religious or secular representatives were invited to the event.

Shortly after the girder set was placed in the WTCMF, reports began to emerge calling the girder set a ‘miracle cross’. Some Ground Zero workers claim that, as they worked inside the debris, they found a girder cross-section that resembled a Christian cross. One of the rescue workers said, “It was an unmistakable cross made of twisted metal placed there at Ground Zero as if it had been intentionally planted.” This story spread like wildfire, eventually spawning a movie entitled, “The Cross and the Towers”. Producer Scott Perkins said, “It was like a cavern that became a place of worship for the weary and for those working rescue and recovery heroes at Ground Zero. It was as if God was holding out his hand and saying, ‘I am with you, I am here, come find peace in me.’ It was God’s house, a place for anyone to come and be ministered to.”

@Eliahna

Now some people want it removed because it’s special to some other people, no other reason.

No, they want it removed, or other religious symbols to be included - a point I notice you ignored. And of course that’s completely unacceptable to the believers because it is not and never was about “comforting” people; as always, it was about rubbing their religion in the faces of as many people as possible while denying the validity of all the others.

[Morgenstern]

Yeah, let’s polarize the sides with an “us vs. them” approach. That’ll get the point across in a nice, smooth way.

[VinylTurnip]

@Der_Trihs

And as far as the billboards being “juvenile and mocking”, here’s the kind of thing Christians put up.

Okay, so now we know it’s possible for atheists to be as juvenile and mocking as Christians with their billboards.

Nice work, I guess?

[tdn]

@Der_Trihs

Atheist are despised by hundreds of millions of Christians who will never meet them or know anything about them personally.

And I dare say that you are enjoying the hell out of that. It gives your life certainty and direction. It may seriously upset you to know that atheism has been steadily on the rise for the past few centuries. Do you think that American Atheists could have put up those billboards in 17th century Salem? Or even a hundred years ago?

Life is messier than you think.

[Crab_Rangoon]

@Princhester

If they want to get somewhere, they need to demonstrate not assert and they need to demonstrate from sources that Xtians cannot easily dismiss. For instance, don’t blurt out “Sadistic God” or “Promotes Hate”. Find a biblical quote that demonstrates hatred or sadism (the OT is full of them) and put that on the billboard. I’d suggest something like:

Help people reach their own view, don’t shout at them.

I agree with this.

However. Any time I see a sign with the term “Magical Underpants” on it, I will smile.

[JRDelirious]

@Dioptre

I don’t think “angry” advertising particularly harms less angry forms of communication. It can be very effective in changing the message. In this case the goal (presumably) is to have a chilling effect on the over-the-top use of religious language at the conventions.

The ads are bad because they are confusing, not because they are insulting. “Mormonism: values invented by a lying cheating fraudster” and “Good people reject most of what the bible teaches, including rape and murder” would be more insulting, but also more effective.

Gotta agree – the ones being used come across as merely rants rather than denunciations of why the religions are wrong.

BTW, the billboards will almost exclusively be displayed near the DNC at Charlotte, because the publicity companies in Tampa Bay (site of the RNC) simply refused to rent out their billboards to the group (or claimed they were already booked solid for the month :dubious: ). Watch for some right wingnut to soon start Just Asking Questions as to why doesn’t the DNC denounce the billboards…

[shiftless]

Those kinds of things always seem ham fisted and likely to have the opposite effect from what they are hoping for. But yet, the exact same methods work so well for Christians I guess others are starting to use them.

In any case, as a non-believer, I would like to disassociate myself from this group of uppity atheists. Just like I would, just once, like to hear a Christian disassociate himself from the televangelists, the door-to-door Christianity pushers, the bill boards and the bumper stickers, the groups that hand out Chick comics, the local churches that mass mail invitations, the people who try to force Christianity through laws or in schools, or any of the other groups who constantly try so very hard, day after day, to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

@Crab_Rangoon

However. Any time I see a sign with the term “Magical Underpants” on it, I will smile.

So true.

[kanicbird]

@Der_Trihs

No, it isn’t.

No, they want it removed, or other religious symbols to be included - a point I notice you ignored. And of course that’s completely unacceptable to the believers because it is not and never was about “comforting” people; as always, it was about rubbing their religion in the faces of as many people as possible while denying the validity of all the others.

Does some people wanting to rub their religion in other’s faces negate other people wanting to offer peace and comfort to others?

[tdn]

@shiftless

Just like I would, just once, like to hear a Christian disassociate himself from the televangelists, the door-to-door Christianity pushers, the bill boards and the bumper stickers, the groups that hand out Chick comics, the local churches that mass mail invitations, the people who try to force Christianity through laws or in schools, or any of the other groups who constantly try so very hard, day after day, to push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

If you’re not hearing this, you’re not listening very hard. I know plenty of Christians who disassociate themselves from this nonsense.

[Der_Trihs]

@Morgenstern

Yeah, let’s polarize the sides with an “us vs. them” approach. That’ll get the point across in a nice, smooth way.

It’s always been an “us versus them” situation. Any statement of doubt in the truth and moral superiority of Christianity will be treated as a persecution. Christianity has always been permanently at war with the world; the goal of Christianity has always been to annihilate everything but itself. The same goes for its close relatives, Mormanism and Islam.

@kanicbird

Does some people wanting to rub their religion in other’s faces negate other people wanting to offer peace and comfort to others?

Such people barely exist. Religion isn’t about peace and comfort.

[Czarcasm]

I’ve got a question that I think puts this in the proper perspective: Where are the threads condemning Christian billlboards because they might alienate atheists? I can’t recall seeing any angry letters in my newspaper decrying the public condemnation of atheists, or editorials asking that Christians should be more understanding and polite towards atheists lest they be offended. Two temporary billboards in one town are a drop in an ocean of overt Christian advertising, in my opinion.

[Der_Trihs]

@Czarcasm

I’ve got a question that I think puts this in the proper perspective: Where are the threads condemning Christian billlboards because they might alienate atheists? I can’t recall seeing any angry letters in my newspaper decrying the public condemnation of atheists, or editorials asking that Christians should be more understanding and polite towards atheists lest they be offended.

It’s the double standard in action. Atheists are supposed to be “polite”; in other words to be silent except to suck up to the believers. The believers on the other hand can throw out any accusation or insult they like at unbelievers while shoving their religion down our throats, and if we complain in any way we’re “insulting”, “persecuting” them, “hateful”, etc.

[VinylTurnip]

@Czarcasm

I’ve got a question that I think puts this in the proper perspective: Where are the threads condemning Christian billlboards because they might alienate atheists? I can’t recall seeing any angry letters in my newspaper decrying the public condemnation of atheists, or editorials asking that Christians should be more understanding and polite towards atheists lest they be offended. Two temporary billboards in one town are a drop in an ocean of overt Christian advertising, in my opinion.

Okay, let’s acknowledge that atheists are fully entitled to use the same tactics as Christians, if they wish.

And then let’s ask what the goal is. If it’s to say “fuck you right back, Christians,” then fine, the billboards do a great job of that. If it’s to attract believers toward atheism, they will utterly fail at that.

[Czarcasm]

@VinylTurnip

Okay, let’s acknowledge that atheists are fully entitled to use the same tactics as Christians, if they wish.

Not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that if we had a proper sense of perspective, there would be 500 threads about offensive public religious actions towards atheists for every thread condemning atheists for offending religionists in public.

[clairobscur]

@FriarTed

Remember what this group is- it’s not Freedom From Religion Foundation or Americans United For Separation of Church & State. It’s “American Atheists”, founded by Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Snark & anger is in its very DNA. Since the murder of her & her son & granddaughter, it’s mellowed a bit, but not by much.

I just read the Wikipedia article about this woman, and there’s something I don’t get at all about her murder case.

The Murrays were kidnapped and murdered by a trio, and two of the culprits went on to kill the third one.

Now, when they were tried :

-Karr was found not guilty of kidnappind, guilty of extortion and sentenced to life

-Water was found guilty of extortion, kidnapping and murder and sentenced to only 20 years.

How do these sentences make any sense

[kanicbird]

@Der_Trihs

Such people barely exist. Religion isn’t about peace and comfort.

Religion was never meant to do this - so we are in agreement on this

You do admit that these people exist, and they do care and are so very few in number. How is your tactic and belief system put into action going to encourage them to keep on caring and helping?

What about those very few which we need so many more of?

[Der_Trihs]

@kanicbird

You do admit that these people exist, and they do care and are so very few in number. How is your tactic and belief system put into action going to encourage them to keep on caring and helping?

What about those very few which we need so many more of?

I think that religion should be eliminated from humanity, including “those few”. I don’t agree that we need more of them.