Tell you what: display separate billboards that each condemn one of the other major religions, and I’ll support you. You know, fairness and inclusion.
Why no billboards condemning Judaism? Not that I demand or would be even slightly pleased to see one. Perhaps the worldwide condemnation Zionism is sufficient.
Why no billboards condemning Islam? That’s easy. I think the overarching reason is there are plenty of fanatics who WILL kill you. So probably the atheists who put up these signs are actually afraid but won’t admit it. Personally, I can’t blame them a lot.
But it will fire up people who are already Christian, and intimidate those who are not.
Because this is a mostly American board; and in America the Christians are the only religious group that matters much, and atheists are pretty much the most hated religious category by them.
It would be interpreted as being about antisemitism, not religion.
Because the overwhelming majority of Americans already hate and fear them and consider Islam to be ridiculous nonsense, so there’s little point in adding to the chorus. And because it’s not really a very important religion in America. In America it’s Christianity that matters; the other religions just have the scraps.
Not meant to open a conversation? That’s kind of a funny thing to say in post #130 of this thread.
I’m starting to suspect that the intent behind the billboards linked in the OP is to “play the bad guy” in an effort to get other people talking. People like Mosier who normally bite their tongue, but when pressed will give their perspective in a tactful manner. There’s already the framework in place for quickly disowning extremist points of view (e.g. “They’re the equivalent of Fred Phelps.”).
I’m sitting here in Colorado reading my local city rag and looking at a large ad with a picture of Obama and a caption that reads “Enemy #1 to religious freedom? Barack Obama is the most biblically-hostile President of all time!”
I run into people who will flat out say, “Obama is the devil!” with absolutely no example, explanation or rationalization necessary.
I’m not sure there’s good reason to be nice to these people. Nothing sways them either way.
I kind of like the ads and think they’re funny. Maybe it’s people like me they’re trying to supermobilize.
There was another group (the Freedom From Religion Foundation?) that had a much less obnoxious series of billboards. Stuff like a photo of a smiling family and the caption, “This is what atheism looks like” or “Good without God” or whatever.
I’m an atheist, I’m pro-atheism advocacy, I’m wearing a ceramic “Reason” pendant around my neck right now, and I still think the American Atheists billboards are stupid and offensive. You don’t win hearts and minds by being an utter fucking douchebag to people, and I reject the idea that hearts and minds are incapable of being won on this topic. I certainly didn’t start out my adulthood as an atheist.
We’re not saying atheists should be nice to these people. We’re saying atheists shouldn’t be imitating these people.
You don’t like religion because you saw an offensive billboard? Well, what do you think happens when people see an offensive billboard “promoting” atheism?
I’m an atheist AND a Fox News viewer. I think the signs are ridiculous and divisive. However, had you asked me when I was a mere 18 years old, I might have been writing them.
No; my argument boils down to “They’ve always hated us simply for existing, and aren’t even paying attention to what we are saying or doing”. I’m saying that it simply irrelevant whether or not a pro-atheist billboard is obnoxious and insulting; its mere existence will incite hatred, and those who hate it won’t care what it says. “Please don’t hate atheists” will get nearly the same response as “all believers must be killed”.
I have been told/asked plenty of times (even on this board, thanks, Kanicbird) if I really worship Satan. Uuuuummmm, how do believers miss the part about no gods? That includes this Satan guy who allegedly, according to the faith of those accusing me that their alleged god created “all things good and evil”? I’ll tell you how: If you’re not with us, you’re not only against us, but you are e.v.i.l. Our god told us so.
No, the biblegod is a complete egotistical and misogynistic asshole who created your devil, whom I will never believe in, just like the sacred creator with his sweet, sweet breath and arms to cherish us, yadda, yadda.
The biblegod is clearly the worst and utmost amoral divine creature humans have created/stolen from ancient myth and fear propaganda.
However… I don’t support the billboards mentioned in the OP. I would much rather see billboards from us atheists that really, really encourage people to read the bible, any version. Then another version. Then another…
I suggest a billboard that encourages “believers” to read Joshua 7. Perhaps the book of Job-- which I think is the clearest reason to never worship a god-- or even all four gospels. That’s really not much to study. I encourage “believers” to study Constantine, Crusades, witchcraft, Wicca, Hinduism, Islam, and especially Judaism, since this is a huge prerequisite to xtianity.
Encourage not to listen, but to LEARN. Learn what you worship, because your neighborhood preacher doesn’t know anything about your religion. But he knows how to tend a flock, to remind those who put a buck in the basket that they will be remembered by this god on their judgment day. He took a public speaking class too.
I (and you) are absolutely right to judge a god. And dismiss them. Just like Zeus, Odin, Thor, Chutulu and even Mother Nature. Hell, (pun intended) even she is closer to us than other gods. Ask a hurricane.
I used to and I prayed about this, and cried over this trying to know the mind of God. What I got is that God doesn’t want us to waste our and His time even doing the math. Tithing is for people who don’t know God, for people who do, who are also people with Love in their heart for others, that Love will direct how, when and where to give much better then any church.
There is no regulated organization that will distribute dollars (ie people’s work) as efficiently as a free organization. All of life is a battle to protect your work against people trying to steal it.
Government or church, it’s all the same tiger. Although I will admit that churches often have an additional benefit to society that can’t be accurately measured.
He maintains that a lot of religious Americans will have a lower-than-dirt opinion of atheists no matter what atheists do, and he’s on fairly solid ground there. That’s not an excuse for being a jerk to believers, but it’s true that most believers have probably not met any atheists, don’t read Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, and aren’t up to date on the latest billboard and bus signage controversies. Many of them may have an incomplete picture of some of this stuff, but I think for most, their image of atheists is based on incorrect assumptions and distortions from religious leaders, for example.
And there, I disagree. Most of the Christians I know were once atheists. I know I was. We all went our own ways towards finding our faith, but each of us holds a deep respect for atheism. It’d be pretty hypocritical for us not to, since we were there ourselves once, and can certainly understand what it is like.
And even the Christians I know who were born and raised in faith and still hold it to this day, do not view atheists as “lower-than-dirt”. From a Christian POV, seeing the world without God is a really terrible thing, because if they held the same belief, they would be really sad. They don’t see a person who has thrown off the shackles of a faith they don’t hold. They see a person in pain, because that is what they(the Christians) would be feelling. Course, it’s just life for the atheist. And in a lot of cases its very freeing for them, since they are glad they don’t live under an illusion. Whereas the hardened atheist will likely view a Christian as someone who has simply been deluded by their upbringing/religion/neighbor-with-a-beard/etc. Both sides view the other through their own point of view.
But in my experience, most Christians have definately met people who do not hold with their faith, be they atheists or agnostics or whatever alternate faith they hold. Their goal is to bring faith to these people wherever they can, but, kind of like the SDMB, not be a jerk about it. Afterall, that kind of just gets people to more firmly entrench in their beliefs, whatever they may be. And if these people can’t or won’t change their views, there’s not much you can do but continue to be their friend and provide a positive example of Christianity. Because even if they don’t change their views, they will typically gain a greater respect for religious people, if not religion itself. And that works both ways.
Edit: Of course, the chances of me convincing someone like **Der Trihs **of this is somewhere between “not gonna happen” and “no fucking way”. There ae people like that on our side too. And there tend to be more radical Christians because there are more Christians. Hurts to spread your message when you get dicks like that on your side.
Where are you from? Where is this place where most of the Christians were originally atheists, because that is certainly not the norm anywhere I’ve ever heard of. If y’all belong to the same Christian sect, I’d sure like to know what it is.