# Are They Moslems First??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069 "2006-03-04T21:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rippingtons\_fan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rippingtons_fan/32/11767_2.png) [@rippingtons\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rippingtons_fan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/1 "2006-03-04T21:03:21Z")
In the world’s nations, (even those nations with an Islamic minority) do Moslems consider themselves Moslems first and then their nationality second? Are ALL Moslems expected to rally to their religion’s defence, even if it means striking-back at the very nation they currently live in, (even if they are very few in number?) Are most Islamic wars considered as defensive or offensive in nature? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/2 "2006-03-04T21:10:02Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > Are ALL Moslems expected to rally to their religion’s defence, even if it means striking-back at the very nation they currently live in, (even if they are very few in number?) The Muslim guy I know best has no problem with the US assassinating the leaders of Iran. Does that answer your question? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/3 "2006-03-04T21:30:17Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > do Moslems consider themselves Moslems first and then their nationality second? I have no idea how one would objectively quantify such an attitude. But if it helps, you could consider the fact that many countries with Muslim minorities have Muslims in their armed forces, even when/though they fight against predominantly Muslim nations. For example, India’s ongoing conflict with majority-Muslim Pakistan doesn’t prevent a number of Indian Muslims from joining India’s [armed forces](http://www.hvk.org/articles/0206/126.html). Muslims constitute about 15% of India’s population and about 2% of its armed services. However, regiments from heavily Muslim areas such as Jammu and Kashmir are as much as 50% Muslim, despite the fact that these regions are closest to the conflict with Muslim Pakistan. Similarly, there are as many as [10,000 Muslims](http://www.renaissance.com.pk/febnevi99.html) in the US armed services, of whom about 4000 are currently on active duty, many in mostly-Muslim Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/4 "2006-03-04T21:34:18Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The Muslim guy I know best has no problem with the US assassinating the leaders of Iran. Does that answer your question? Anectodal opinion from one of the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims, I’d say that settles it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/5 "2006-03-04T22:09:22Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > Anectodal opinion from one of the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims, I’d say that settles it. Since the question was: > [@](#): > > Are ALL Moslems expected to rally to their religion’s defence I’d say yes, it certainly does settle it. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/6 "2006-03-04T22:16:26Z")
Well if we’re gonna get nit-picky, the question was if they’re **expected** to, not if they do. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/7 "2006-03-04T22:22:28Z")
Looking at this from another perspective, as a Christian I am expected to put God before country. Your Christian Mileage May Vary, of course. So if the answer to this is yes, Muslims are expected to put Allah before country, it wouldn’t surprise me. Going off on a bit of a philosphical tangent, what is the purpose of religion if it doesn’t come before nationality? If nationality were going to define my identity, explain my worldview, dictate my morality, etc., why would I engage in a spiritual search for meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/8 "2006-03-04T22:35:43Z")
This sounds very like a question that has been asked about Catholics and Jews, back when it was fashionable to demonize those groups, and could be asked about _any_ religious organization. The quick answer is that most people will not turn against their home country without a damned good reason, and simply being the member of a religion isn’t that good of a reason historically speaking. “Religious wars” tend to be about something far more prosaic than faith. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/9 "2006-03-05T20:40:01Z")
I can’t speak for Muslims, but I’ve noticed that when among other Americans, the thing that probably best defines me is that I’m an Orthodox Jew, so that’s probably how I think of myself first. On the rarer occasion that I’m with Jews from many different countries, I think of myself as the American, since everybody there is Jewish. Self-definition is a funny thing, and doesn’t necessarily lend itself to neat categories. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/10 "2006-03-05T20:42:33Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > Well if we’re gonna get nit-picky, the question was if they’re **expected** to, not if they do. By whom? ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-moslems-first/347069/11 "2006-03-06T05:21:39Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > By whom? the op’m