# Are they torturing Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and do you care?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [March 4, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998 "2003-03-04T14:37:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/1 "2003-03-04T14:37:30Z")
You’ve all read about the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and how the CIA made away with him in the dead of night.
Am I being cynical in believing that Mohammed is, as we speak, being tortured to within an inch of his life? Maybe I watch too much _Alias_, but I somehow doubt he’s been allowed to make a phone call to Amnesty International. I also doubt Mohammed is voluntarily giving up ANY information.
Personally, I’m picturing old-fashioned bamboo shoots.
So what do you think? Are they really torturing him? Do they still _do_ that? And, on a related note, does this bother you?
Because I must admit that being the complete moral degenerate that I am, I’m having a really hard time getting indignant. If he really did mastermind the 9/11 attacks, and my government is telling me he did, then honestly I kind of think they SHOULD torture Mohammed if it will help gather information and circumvent another attack. I can still picture those innocent souls jumping off the WTC or making their final frantic phone calls to their loved ones thanks to his handiwork and I _want_ him to suffer.
But then the catholic girl in me is feeling guilt for wishing harm upon my enemy. If I want this guy to SUFFER for what he’s done, where does that put me on the morality scale? And is the U.S. ever justified in casting aside the shackles of civility in the name of justice or defense? Do the ends justify the means?
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### Author:  [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/2 "2003-03-04T14:44:43Z")
Considering he’s up there in the ladder, he would know some critical information about future attacks (vaguely, if not concretly). For that reason alone, it’s OK to torture him. But, had Al-Qaeda disbanded and this arrest was simply to bring him to justice, then he should go through the due process of law.
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### Author:  [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/3 "2003-03-04T14:50:35Z")
I hope that he is not being tortured and I would care very much if I found out that he was.
I wouldn’t feel badly for him if he were tortured. If he has done what they say he has done then I hope the rest of his life is full of pain and suffering.
However, we should be above that sort of behavior. It is wrong to torture someone for information about a past event or because he “might” have information about another potential attack. He should go through the normal process of the law.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/4 "2003-03-04T14:53:02Z")
AFAIK torture is not a very effective means of getting good information. For that reason and because it is really against my personal beliefs I hope ‘we’ are not doing that.
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### Author:  [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/5 "2003-03-04T14:55:49Z")
You obviously did not see Good Morning America this morning. They had this guy on who knew all about Torture, and the techniques the US were most likely using againt this guy. But so far, apparently he has just been in a trance like state reciting over and over the Kuran.
I feel nothing for the man personally. And they can stick as many bamboo sticks under his finger nails as they like. And yes torture him untill he craps his pants, but I will still never get the image of the World Trade Center collapsing on all those innocent people out of my head.
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### Author:  [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/6 "2003-03-04T14:57:36Z")
I hope we are not torturing him. If so, then we are abandoning the moral high ground.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/7 "2003-03-04T15:05:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \*
> \*\*Because I must admit that being the complete moral degenerate that I am, I’m having a really hard time getting indignant. If he really did mastermind the 9/11 attacks, and my government is telling me he did, then honestly I kind of think they SHOULD torture Mohammed if it will help gather information and circumvent another attack. I can still picture those innocent souls jumping off the WTC or making their final frantic phone calls to their loved ones thanks to his handiwork and I _want_ him to suffer. \*\*
But then, the US government also said that [Derek Bond](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166233) was a serial conman responsible for bilking innocent people out of their life savings for 20 years, when in fact he was an innocent senior citizen on vacation in South Africa (and a victim of the conman they thought he was, to boot). So I get a little skeptical of things the government asserts.
It’s up to us to keep to the moral high ground, as much as we’d like to inflict great pain upon the guilty, and it’s _definitely_ up to us to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt before inflicting punishment. That’s what makes us the “good guys”. Otherwise, the US is just another tinpot dictatorship.
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### Author:  [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/8 "2003-03-04T15:18:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> For that reason alone, it’s OK to torture him.
Would you feel the same way if Al-Quaida captured Condoleeza Rice and were torturing her?
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/9 "2003-03-04T15:18:05Z")
I definitely care. Not so much about him, but about us.
Despite what other people might think, I love the idea of this country, and wish we fulfilled its promise more often. Torturing suspects in crime moves us away from what we could become, no matter how terrible were the crimes.
Daniel
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### Author:  [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/10 "2003-03-04T15:21:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by MSU 1978 \*
> \*\*I hope we are not torturing him. If so, then we are abandoning the moral high ground. \*\*
Good Lord! Do you really think we’re on the moral high ground? I certainly don’t.
I do not condone torturing him or anyone. I had feelings that the Al Qaida prisoners in Cuba were probably being tortured. Fuck the Geneva convention, right? I don’t condone the belief that because we’re the U.S. that we can do whatever we want to people and put our nose in business that is none of our own…ahh, nevermind, I could go on all day, but I won’t.😃
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### Author:  [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/11 "2003-03-04T15:31:24Z")
I hope we get as much information from him as possible, in non violent means. Sleep depravation and brain washing are nice tactics. Good cop, bad cop. Confidant inmate. All the games they play.
Then, when they get all the information they can out of the guy, torture the hell out of him. Then, when he’s been tortured for a nice long time, burn him. Make him suffer through the pain of a burn ward. Then when the skin grafts and burns have all healed, burn him again.
F\*ck the moral high ground. We’ll just use _his_ set of morals.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/12 "2003-03-04T15:32:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \*
> \*\*You obviously did not see Good Morning America this morning. They had this guy on who knew all about Torture, and the techniques the US were most likely using againt this guy. But so far, apparently he has just been in a trance like state reciting over and over the Kuran.
>
> \*\*
So basically GMA was saying that ‘we’ are torturing him and that, so far, it has not been effective?
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### Author:  [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/13 "2003-03-04T15:33:27Z")
Let’s see, there were thousands of innocents in the WTC minding their own business. Planes slam into the tower causing it to collapse into rubble. Being the victim of a totally unprovoked and cowardly sneak attack puts you on the moral high ground. Your actions afterward determine whether you keep the moral high ground or give it up.
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### Author:  [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/14 "2003-03-04T15:33:38Z")
That’s fucking sick. You don’t know the details, you don’t really know anything about what he has or hasn’t done. Typical.
If that’s the way you think, then have fun with your karma. It’s not up to humans to inflict pain on the man, if he’s guilty he will pay for it with his soul.
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### Author:  [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/15 "2003-03-04T15:46:23Z")
I’m fine with psychological pressure. I guess I would draw the line at physical pressure. It is a difficult question and one quite suited for Great Debates.
If you were to tell me beyond a doubt that he had info that would save lives, I would be hard-pressed to proscribe any means necessary to extract this information- but again, how can we know?
What I really am interested in is, how big does his head get? Did you see the collar on his shirt? I think we may be dealing with a modern-day Arab David Banner here.
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### Author:  [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/16 "2003-03-04T15:49:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> If that’s the way you think, then have fun with your karma. It’s not up to humans to inflict pain on the man, if he’s guilty he will pay for it with his soul.
This presupposes the existence of a “soul.”
I **hope** he can be made to talk **without** physical torture. I doubt that he can, since he is apparently a real fanatic.
If all else fails, I am in favor of using all means necessary to empty his brain of all relevevant information. Once that is done, I’m in favor of using a helicopter to take him up to some significant altitude, where he will be set afire and thrown from the helicopter, all on live TV, broadcast worldwide.
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### Author:  [@Rug\_Burn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rug_Burn)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/17 "2003-03-04T15:52:58Z")
I do not believe in torture. I do belive that unfortunate accidents happen though. For instance, if he were being detained on the 110 floor of a building and needed to get to the lobby for his continental breakfast, perhaps the elevator is temporarily out of order. Then of course he would have to use the stairs; but being the clutz that he is, he would tend to fall a lot. By the time he reached the lobby he might feel to under the weather to eat and would be taken back to the top to await lunch time, when perhaps he would feel better.
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### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/18 "2003-03-04T15:59:34Z")
Physical torture is just not an effective way to get accurate information out of someone, so I don’t think that they are doing that. Chemical interrogation is much more likely.
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### Author:  [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/19 "2003-03-04T16:01:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \*
> \*\*Would you feel the same way if Al-Quaida captured Condoleeza Rice and were torturing her? \*\*
If Condoleeza Rice masterminded a plot to hijack airliners and crash them into downtown Baghdad (or any other Muslim city) with the soul purpose to kill as many civilians as possible and create terror, I wouldn’t have any problems with it.
But then again, I’m a mean S.O.B.
Personally, IIRC physical torture methods can be quite unreliable. I’m sure the US has the absolute best intelligence people on this guy. If they can’t make him crack, nobody can.
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### Author:  [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-they-torturing-khalid-shaikh-mohammed-and-do-you-care/158998/20 "2003-03-04T16:04:58Z")
For anybody who thinks torture is fine, just remember that two can play the game.
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