# Are today's college kids getting stupider? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 1, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497 "2006-12-01T18:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/41 "2006-12-02T11:39:33Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] as I said before, I really wonder what they imagine doing in what I perceive as an increasingly competitive job market. [/QUOTE] I don’t think kids these days are being brought up to compete. I have a friend who has been sitting on his duff for two years, not looking for a job, playing online games simply because his parents will pay for it and he would rather get a real job than work for McDonalds. I think that the one kid on the Sopranos TV show was very telling of the new generation (\< 20), their entire desire to get out there and bash heads has been entirely drained away. If the money comes to them, then okay, but otherwise they can just play games and wait. Personally I’m going to blame parents, schools, and the government as being too forgiving of slackers, as well as the internet which pretty much gives you everything you need but food for free. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/42 "2006-12-02T12:49:28Z")
[QUOTE=DMark] I just started teaching at a college that specializes in the arts. For subjects the students like, they are really hard-working and do a great job. The problem is, if they don’t like a class, their motivation is zip. Trying to teach a class that is mandatory, but does not interest the students one iota - well, it isn’t easy. That is where the teacher has to figure out a way to make the class relevant. In the “old days”, the teacher didn’t care about your motivation and if you didn’t do your work, you failed; end of story. Currently I am teaching a speech course. On the first day of class, not one student admitted to wanting to take the class. It was mandatory, and you could see it on their faces that this class was not a high priority. I am happy to report that with a lot of effort on my part, 75% of my class is doing VERY well in this class. I have heard reports from other teachers that a few have even said they like the class a lot. The attendance is high, and they seem to really like giving speeches and listening to the others give speeches! Even the shy students have overcome their panic and are doing very well. Their final exam is to give a speech in front of another class at school (a room full of people they don’t know) and so far, they all seem to be looking forward to doing it! I feel like the class has been a success. I will grant you one thing - the basic skills of the students are abysmal…most of them couldn’t write a single paragraph without multiple spelling and grammar errors, most are pretty clueless about history or even current events, and few have any grasp of the basics of math or science. It is, however, a school devoted to studying the arts, so it shouldn’t come as a total surprise to me that they are not exactly proficient in other fields. [/QUOTE] I agree completely: the sad fact is, you can graduate from any US highschool without taking any courses with academic rigor! Plus HS english doesn’t teach grammar (hence the poor writing), math doesn’t teach algebra (why students don’t understand compound interest), and history doesn’t teach history-I’ve met students who were unfamiliar with WWII! Basically, the HS carriculum has been gutted, since about 1980. What I don’t get-why so many students seem to lack intellectual curiosity-is it too much visual stimulation (video games, TV)? :o ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/43 "2006-12-02T13:37:36Z")
I’ve been experimenting this term with making my classes more student-friendly. Specifically, I’ve stopped pretty much assigning serious papers for them to complete, because of all the complaints about my high standards for formal writing, inflexibility with deadlines, etc., and simply had my students responsible for writing a paragraph or two (submitted electronically by class time) on that day’s assigned reading. They know what they need to read weeks or months in advance, they know their grades will depend on their filing these perfunctory reports twice a week, and they still don’t do them consistently. One major (who’s missing about a dozen reports, with two missed reports stated on my syllabus as the maximum allowed) casually remarked yesterday, “I’m a little behind in my reports, aren’t I?” Not “Do I have a prayer of passing your course?” but a casual remark about exceeding the number of missed reports by, oh, 1200%. So I’m starting to see that it’s not that I’m very demanding, but that they will gauge the demands of a particular course and proceed to act as if those demands are well in excess of what they’re willing to do. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/44 "2006-12-02T14:56:25Z")
One factor that could account for some of this: there are lot more students in college now with learning disabilities and mental/emotional disorders. Even fifteen years ago, these students would never have gone to college, but now, thanks to ADA/IDEA and medication, more of these students are making it in. We’ve seen a big increase in these kinds of students at the private college I work for, and I wonder if you’re not going to get even more at a community college–students can still live at home, it’s seen as an easier transition into college, etc. Some go on to do quite well, but for some others, college is just not going to work for them. Obviously, this wouldn’t account for everything your wife has noticed, but it’s something to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/45 "2006-12-02T15:21:20Z")
[QUOTE=ouryL] I think the more distant your generation is from the current one, the distant it is culturally. I am more conversant on things involving the fifties, sixties, and seventies than my nieces and nephews. I know “Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In” was the number one song in 1969. I know all the words to the “Pledge of Allegiance”. I even know what Brian’s Song is. Then again, I couldn’t tell you last year’s number one song was, don’t know how to operate a cell phone and have never been to myspace. [/QUOTE] I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but since when is knowing the words to the Pledge of Allegiance some sort of generational issue? (I mean, my mother knows all the _other_ verses of the anthem, which I do think is generational, but the Pledge?) Oh, and we librarians sort of think they’re just as lazy as they ever were, it’s just that it’s easier to be lazy now. They don’t even have to come _into_ the library to plagarize reference books anymore - hell, they wouldn’t know a reference book if it walked up and bit them on the ass. Google is their go-to man, and they’re completely incapable of evaluating sources. The thing is, everybody tells us they’re _supposed_ to be little search wizards, evaluating information at the speed of light - untrue. They’re the world’s shittiest searchers and they believe everything they read. I don’t think they’re so fundamentally different in their laziness than any students before them, though. More “entitled”, sure. More likely to take opportunities for granted, you bet. Completely unsuited for a competitive enviroment, you betcha. Incapable of working alone, indeed. But the same amount of lazy as their parents. (I didn’t librarianate for their parents, but my coworkers did, and I assure you, we’ve always had to buy Masterplots.) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/46 "2006-12-02T15:43:16Z")
I believe there’s been a noticeable generational shift since I started teaching in 2000, but I wouldn’t call the current crop of students “stupider.” In general, I think they’ve been over-scheduled, over-coached, and overprotected, and so they expect more hand-holding and step-by-step instructions and have difficulty figuring things out on their own. And some of them just plain flail when they _don’t_ have someone looking over their shoulder any more. They’re also used to higher grades, which means they tend to freak out over anything that isn’t an A, but they’re not willing to take the sort of intellectual risks that you used to _have_ to take to earn an A. (I suspect that grade inflation undermines students’ confidence more than getting a few old-fashioned Fs used to do.) But all of that is learned behavior, and most of them _do_ seem to learn better habits after a year or two (or else they drop out, and the ones who are left are the ones who get it – I’m not sure which). ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/47 "2006-12-02T15:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] Yea, but that’s the point. These kids are further out of competition than the Cubs in August! We’re not talking about passing with a low C or D. We’re talking about scoring less than 50% on a multiple choice test where the teacher intentionally and explicitly gave them the questions and answers during the class before the test! Or where she allowed them to do it open book and open note. Or take home. She has tried every method she can come up with to make the tests easier and easier, and the kids keep submarining her lowest expectations. She has stopped giving any type of essay tests or assignments, because she is unable to decipher what the hell a good percentage of the handed in assignments are trying to say - can’t even get to the stage of deciding whether it is right or wrong. [/QUOTE] Your wife is not alone. My Hubby teaches at the local branch campus of our state university and he could have written the above paragraphs. He intentionally designs his tests so that if you read all of the questions, you’ll often find the answers to some worded into other questions. He gives the tests to me before he gives them to his class. Even knowing very about the subject and having attended none of the lectures, I can usually get a C just by carefully reading all of the questions. He used to ask for short research papers, but he stopped because of sheer frustration. It seemed the students genuinely could not see the difference between their _opinions_ and actual _facts_. He even joked in class that he was deducting ten points for every time he saw the words, “I believe” or “I think” in a paper, to no avail. It was a damn miracle if ten percent of them were even _readable._ I can’t offer any suggestions. Hubby, too, has tried all sorts of different ideas to try to make the class more . . . well, more _simple_, but he’s starting to get frustrated and he’s not enjoying teaching as much as he used to. He’s not only leading the horse to water-- he’s putting the horse’s head into the water and opening its mouth, but by God, it just won’t drink. He’s a great teacher, he really is, and I’m not just saying that because I’m his wife. (Every quarter, his students give him the highest rating of all of the teachers and professors.) His lectures are interesting and he’s got great delivery. But the students won’t even\* try.\* ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/48 "2006-12-02T19:23:47Z")
I should clarify something that I failed to mention earlier: it’s the students from outside the U.S. that tend to work harder, show up more often, and actually give a damn about what they’re doing. Sure, there’s more at stake for an international student, but surely there must be a huge difference between their education and culture and ours. I am currently grading some essays from a writing class (about two levels below freshman comp.). The students from the Middle East, Africa and Asia are, almost without exception, doing far better on their exams than the native speakers are. I’ve also noticed that the latter are more prone to socializing, giggling, and just being lazy. I often yearn for a class of 100% international students. They may struggle with the language, but at least they make an effort. ---
**Author:** ![QuarkChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c5a1d2/32.png) [@QuarkChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuarkChild)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/49 "2006-12-02T19:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Yep. My guess is that as more and more higher education is expected, people who’d quit after getting a bachelor’s degree are going to grad school, people who formerly would go to CCs would go to four-year schools, and those who wouldn’t go to any college attend CCs (“13th grade”). So kids aren’t dumber, the bracket of CCs has just shifted down. [/QUOTE] I agree with this. As a teaching assistant in the physics department at UC Santa Cruz, I only had one student in 3 years that I would describe as “apathetic.” (He was graduating that quarter, physics wasn’t his major, and he just wanted a passing score so he could get out of there. He nearly failed.) I also had only one student (a different one) who couldn’t write a coherent lab report. All the other students I ever had could write coherently and would do whatever I asked them to do. (Most were not physics majors, by the way.) I certainly wouldn’t say that all of them were stellar students (although many were), but they were much better than those described in the OP. My guess is that as good schools like the UC campuses increase their enrollments, the community colleges are getting fewer decent students, at least in the traditional age bracket (18-22). ---
**Author:** ![QuarkChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c5a1d2/32.png) [@QuarkChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuarkChild)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/50 "2006-12-02T20:01:19Z")
I should probably emphasize, just to reassure everyone who fears for America’s future, that if there is one thing I learned by being a TA, it is that there are some incredibly intelligent and gifted students out there. I know they exist; I had the good fortune to have them in my lab classes. For the most part, the students who didn’t fall into that category were at minimum good students who did try to do well in class and understand the material. So don’t give up on all college students. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/51 "2006-12-02T20:26:47Z")
I am a CC graduate now attending UCLA. I’ve had several papers done already this quarter, and when the grading is done on every single one, the professor sends out an email on improving writing style. This is for upper-division courses in departments which are ranked in the top ten of the country (History and Classics). We have already had our writing classes and supposedly have passed them. Yet my Oxford-educated history professor has to send handouts in email on avoiding essay mistakes (and, sadly, a reminder on acceptable modes of address and how to write a freakin’ informative email). That is fucking sad. Sure, the kids are just a bit more engaging in class than my JC counterparts, but they don’t seem all that willing to put a lot of effort into anything. Half the time in my discussion sections, my TA asks a question, the whole class stares blankly, then I roll my eyes and for the 10th time this quarter answer the question to get the ball rolling. I got a perfect score on a map quiz that the teacher gave us a study sheet for a week in advance, and had people in fourth year begging me to know how I’d gotten it. A map quiz. That \*seniors \*at UCLA were unable to get perfect scores on. I think that speaks for itself. I am supposedly really smart to be able to hack a full ride into the #9 Classics department in the country, but things like this just make me think I’m not actually smart, I’m just better than everyone else at doing the work. OTOH though I believe that while the main goal of an education is to impart knowledge, another more vague goal is to weed out the slackers. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/52 "2006-12-02T20:38:59Z")
Perhaps some of these super-intelligent and motivated older individuals that are complaining about the, “kids these days,” would like to put together a well reasoned argument that actually addresses the claimed phenomena in an objective manner. Ironically, these former scholastic super-stars that went on to teach at highly competitive and respected community colleges now find their critical thinking and researching skills absent and they are incapable of pulling information to support their claims from, Google Scholar, Google, the internet, Lexus-Nexus, card catalog, or palimpsest scripts (whatever the preferred technology for finding information was back when the people that attended college were _real_ men and women). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/53 "2006-12-03T02:36:38Z")
[QUOTE=The Sausage Creature] I am a CC graduate now attending UCLA. I’ve had several papers done already this quarter, and when the grading is done on every single one, the professor sends out an email on improving writing style. This is for upper-division courses in departments which are ranked in the top ten of the country (History and Classics). We have already had our writing classes and supposedly have passed them. Yet my Oxford-educated history professor has to send handouts in email on avoiding essay mistakes (and, sadly, a reminder on acceptable modes of address and how to write a freakin’ informative email). [/QUOTE] This has been a common problem in universities for quite a bit longer than you have been alive. I’ve seeb precisely the same complaint made about the students of the 1980s, 1970s, and so on, at least as far back as the 1930s. I agree it’s quite strange kids at a school like that would make such dumb mistakes, but it is not new, and not particular to students today. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/54 "2006-12-03T03:01:25Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] This has been a common problem in universities for quite a bit longer than you have been alive. I’ve seeb precisely the same complaint made about the students of the 1980s, 1970s, and so on, at least as far back as the 1930s. I agree it’s quite strange kids at a school like that would make such dumb mistakes, but it is not new, and not particular to students today. [/QUOTE] Well that makes me feel better. (FTR, I don’t think they’re dumb, just lazy). ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/55 "2006-12-03T03:37:28Z")
[QUOTE=ouryL] I think the more distant your generation is from the current one, the distant it is culturally. I am more conversant on things involving the fifties, sixties, and seventies than my nieces and nephews. I know “Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In” was the number one song in 1969. I know all the words to the “Pledge of Allegiance”. I even know what Brian’s Song is. Then again, I couldn’t tell you last year’s number one song was, don’t know how to operate a cell phone and have never been to myspace. [/QUOTE] What does this have to do with a class in Business Law? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/56 "2006-12-03T03:58:47Z")
[QUOTE=anu-la1979] As to the OP, I don’t know. It seems to me that getting into college is getting tougher and tougher [/QUOTE] The percentage of the U.S. population age 25 or older with a bachelor’s degree has risen from about 11% in 1970 to 25% in 2000. That is a huge _increase_. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/57 "2006-12-03T05:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] What does this have to do with a class in Business Law? [/QUOTE] This is a thread about perceptions. **ouryL** posted about perceptions. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/58 "2006-12-03T06:42:39Z")
Let’s address the OP with data. College attendance is on the rise and has been since the 1980s (there was actually a period in the 1970s when enrollments dropped). As others have noted, many more students have the opportunity and ability to attend college nowadays - open enrollment institutions like CCs and for-profits are readily available, and especially for the latter, schools aggressive help students apply and receive aid. We still see a gap in college access among students of color and low-income students, and ironically the systemic solutions to address these gaps - affirmative action and need-based aid - are on the decline. Middle-class parents are the bulk of voting constituents in most states, so you see the advent of merit programs like in Georgia, which have been demonstrated to increase access for middle- and upper-class students but have no effect on working-class and poor student enrollments. What’s probably happening is what happened with high school diplomas in the 1950s. Since that time HS completion has been noted as the gateway to a comfortable middle-class existence. With a diploma, one could be expected to do fairly well economically. The college diploma is becoming the middle-class credential today, with the loss of manufacturing jobs since the 1970s in the US. Selective colleges are competitive, probably more competitive than ever, witnessed in increasing SAT scores, higher GPAs, etc. of each successive entering class. Non-selective schools have the opposite issue. With more and more students opting for higher education out of necessity, many students who are less academically inclined are there to earn a certificate or a degree by doing the bare minimum. They’re not inclined to apply for grad school or aim for the dean’s list. Mix in the phenomenon of “helicopter parenting,” those parents who micromanage their children’s lives and prevent them from taking on progressive responsibilities, and I can see why the OP’s wife is bemoaning the motivation and intelligence of the students in her classes. I should note that as a TA for graduate students at an elite school, we see some irresponsible students and poor work as well. Not much, but I’ve had papers that appear to have been written by semi-literate middle schoolers, and I’ve had students who show up before a final exam bemoaning their low grades, when they never came and talked about it during the semester. Again, not often at all, but it does happen, even on the grad level at elite schools. Another complication is the fact that most states don’t have strong linkages along the P-16 continuum. Most states (now have to because of NCLB) take their lead on education from the Dept. of Ed and not their own state higher ed coordinating boards. So college entry requirements often don’t match what students need to know to graduate high school. There is a need for educational leaders on all levels to coordinate their efforts so they can better address the needs of the state citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/59 "2006-12-03T07:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > **Walloon** :The percentage of the U.S. population age 25 or older with a bachelor’s degree has risen from about 11% in 1970 to 25% in 2000. That is a huge increase. I know more kids are going to school. I meant getting into the so-called “top” universities is becoming extremely difficult because more people are applying for the same number of spots. For instance, the school I attended for undergrad used to be ranked as “selective” by Princeton Review. It’s now ranked as “ultra-selective” (not the public Illinois school, I went to a different undergrad). When I was growing up in Boston, Tufts & Brandeis were used by classmates as backups for staying in the metro-Boston area when they couldn’t get into Harvard or MIT. I don’t know anyone that uses them as backups anymore, they are extremely difficult to get into and have come to the level of “reach” schools. I am not originally from California but my native co-workers tell me USC and UC-Riverside & UC-Irvine have become staggeringly more stringent in admissions standards due to the number of kids who are applying to the California public university system. Here’s a [statement](http://www.columbia.edu/cu/pr/00/02/admissions.html) from Columbia over the rising number of applications as compared to 8 years ago. Apparently a lot of people think [getting into college is harder](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/24/sunday/main2036344.shtml). I don’t know what your point is-mine is just that considering that you’d have to have higher test scores, zillions more activities and a few innoculated orphans on your CV to get into the same schools I did with worse credentials 10 years ago-I’m surprised people feel the calibre of the students attending is decreasing. Personally, I would think they’d be even brighter and bushy-tailed and motivated than the people I went to school with. I also think the idea of failing out of U of I-Urbana Champaign at the undergrad level requires a very talented level of incompetency. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497/60 "2006-12-03T07:42:57Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Sure there are stupid kids at all levels, but for the most part community college is the bottom of the academic barrel. Financial reasons aside, your more motivated students will strive to get into the best schools they can. [/QUOTE] Maybe, maybe not. I know lots of parents who, to save money, force their kids to got for two years to a CC with the intent of transferring to a four year college later. (They seem to need the money for their new SUV - these people are not poor.) These parents (and some of the teachers in my kids high schools) do not seem to see the difference between our local CC and our local UC (which happens to be Berkeley) or even between the CC and Harvard. So some kids get stuck in CCs for that reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-todays-college-kids-getting-stupider/382497.md?page=4)