# Are trade wars good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902 "2018-03-02T16:57:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/41 "2018-03-03T11:50:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Yeah, if I’m honest, I don’t really see what motive Trump had to do this. Your mistake is assuming Trump has a logical rationale for anything he does. > [@](#): > > According to two officials, Trump’s decision to launch a potential trade war was born out of anger at other simmering issues and the result of a broken internal process that has failed to deliver him consensus views that represent the best advice of his team. > > On Wednesday evening, the president became “unglued,” in the words of one official familiar with the president’s state of mind. > > A trifecta of events had set him off in a way that two officials said they had not seen before: Hope Hicks’ testimony to lawmakers investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, conduct by his embattled attorney general and the treatment of his son-in-law by his chief of staff. > > Trump, the two officials said, was angry and gunning for a fight, and he chose a trade war, spurred on by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and Peter Navarro, the White House director for trade — and against longstanding advice from his economic chair Gary Cohn and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin. > > SOURCE: [Trump was angry and 'unglued' when he started a trade war, officials say](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-was-angry-unglued-when-he-started-trade-war-officials-n852641) ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/42 "2018-03-03T12:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Trump, the two officials said, was angry and gunning for a fight, and he chose a trade war, I guess we should be thankful for small mercies. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/43 "2018-03-03T13:04:11Z")
Trump said it. I don’t believe it. That settles it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/44 "2018-03-03T14:28:31Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > A lot of the discussion so far has been around how these tariffs would affect Chinese steel, but from what I have heard, Europe exports far more steel to the U.S. than China does. Hence, the big freak out and promises of retaliation today have been coming from Europe. That may be another reason it’s hard to win a trade war: you end up damaging your “friends”, not just your “enemies”. Canada is probably the hardest hit by the tariffs, and this is just another trade policy that has stung our “friend” to the north. It’s unfortunate because Canada’s in a difficult position to fight back. If Canada were having a spat with the UK or the rest of the EU, they would have options. We’re Canada’s biggest purchaser and geography makes it difficult to change that. Doesn’t mean that they can’t find ways to eventually return some of the favor, though. On the other side of the border, Brazil is also potentially hit by any tariff on steel. Trump has made it obvious that his administration has contempt for the rest of the Americas, but unlike Canada, I could see them fighting back and giving us some tough love at some point if things get too far out of hand. If they can’t hurt us economically, they could do so politically. Deeper relations with Russia and China, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/45 "2018-03-03T15:00:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > One side can get a better deal with the threat of a trade war. What kind of deal? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/46 "2018-03-03T16:06:03Z")
Trade Wars was very good, although it hasn’t aged all that well. For a BBS turn-based game you don’t get much better, though. Wait, you meant the actual activity of a trade war? \ Nope, it looks like that’s classified as ‘chaotic neutral’. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/47 "2018-03-03T20:42:21Z")
My stock in cupronickel mining operations and research has gone up ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/48 "2018-03-04T03:15:51Z")
It’s possible that it’s a national security issue. I did some consulting for a steel distributor, and for the kind of steel that they dealt in there was only one steel forge in the entire United States, and the only time they ordered steel from it was when they needed steel that had to be made in the US because it was being bought by defense contractors. If that steel forge is unable to make a profit just from customers that have to buy US-made steel, then the tariff can be seen as a measure of national security because they don’t want to have to buy these grades of steel from other countries to use in defense applications. The better answer to the conundrum is simply to nationalize the steel forge if it’s that important to national security but not turning a profit, but that probably wouldn’t go over well with Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/49 "2018-03-04T04:24:35Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > It’s possible that it’s a national security issue. I did some consulting for a steel distributor, and for the kind of steel that they dealt in there was only one steel forge in the entire United States, and the only time they ordered steel from it was when they needed steel that had to be made in the US because it was being bought by defense contractors. If that steel forge is unable to make a profit just from customers that have to buy US-made steel, then the tariff can be seen as a measure of national security because they don’t want to have to buy these grades of steel from other countries to use in defense applications. > > The better answer to the conundrum is simply to nationalize the steel forge if it’s that important to national security but not turning a profit, but that probably wouldn’t go over well with Republicans. If that’s the case, then that one forge is in absolutely no danger of folding or even losing jobs. Matter of fact, if any of the other mill owners had any brains, they’d try to make the same product. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/50 "2018-03-04T07:10:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Yeah, if I’m honest, I don’t really see what motive Trump had to do this. If we imported steel from China, I could see it, but they aren’t even in the top 10 and even within the top 10 [we don’t strongly favor one country over another](https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf) (PDF). It’s unclear who, exactly, this is meant to target. It’s meant to target Trump’s core vote. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/51 "2018-03-04T13:59:38Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s meant to target Trump’s core vote. Yeah, cause Republicans don’t buy American-made cars… ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/52 "2018-03-04T14:08:46Z")
That’s missing the point by a couple of continents. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/53 "2018-03-04T14:29:00Z")
Wait until China cancels \*\*20 BILLION \*\*dollars in pending Boeing orders, giving them instead to Airbus. Yeah, we’ll win for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/54 "2018-03-04T15:12:28Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > He actually makes a pretty good point (if you put emphasis on the word “can”) that not enough people are noting: it’s almost too obvious that Trump is just bluffing. Besides the haphazard rollout, did anybody actually watch and listen to him announce it? You could tell he wasn’t familiar enough with the details for it to be a concrete thing that anybody there has even fully considered. Was Trump bluffing when he threatened to withdraw from the TPP, or when he said that he wanted to renegotiate NAFTA? Either he sincerely believes all the protectionist nonsense, or else he realizes that enough of his base does that he doesn’t dare do anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/55 "2018-03-04T17:31:58Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Wait until China cancels \*\*20 BILLION \*\*dollars in pending Boeing orders, giving them instead to Airbus. Yeah, we’ll win for sure. Or (as **China Guy** pointed out in another thread), they decide not to show up to the next T-Bill auction. Before he pisses off China, Trump better remember he’s going to need to borrow 1.5 trillion to finance his larcenous tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/56 "2018-03-04T17:32:43Z")
The levers of governmental power are being manipulated by a moron. We are in deep trouble. Crane ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/57 "2018-03-04T20:54:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I have to say that it’s gratifying to see America finally turn its attention to our true enemy, Canadian steel workers. Right, their assaults on our democracy have been scary. And, that video showing nuclear missiles raining on FL … holy cow. We really need to do some damage to Canada! ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/58 "2018-03-04T21:09:55Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Was Trump bluffing when he threatened to withdraw from the TPP, or when he said that he wanted to renegotiate NAFTA? > > Either he sincerely believes all the protectionist nonsense, or else he realizes that enough of his base does that he doesn’t dare do anything else. He regularly says something radically ridiculous on the “other” side of whatever it is that he otherwise seems to want. And, sometimes he flip flops multiple times. It’s like he’s working for chaos. Now, he’s tossing the economy into chaos. I’m not so sure he has any actual interest in policy. He seems fixated on clapping crowds and his name in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/59 "2018-03-04T23:07:27Z")
Sadly, the steel tariff will be the most effective sanction Trump has ever enforced against the Russians. Not to mention the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902/60 "2018-03-04T23:18:35Z")
It’s the defensive ranting of a pitiful moron. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trade-wars-good/809902.md?page=4)