# Are Transsexuals Mentally Ill?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [August 17, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759 "2012-08-17T09:13:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/141 "2012-08-30T03:35:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> I can’t understand why this is even an argument.
Your points were already addressed earlier in the thread, the last time you brought them up.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/142 "2012-08-30T19:19:47Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> I can’t understand why this is even an argument. Bob is a man. He has testicles and a penis. He has an XY chromosome.
There are people with XY chromosomes that had a hormonal triggering event that caused them not to have a penis and testicles. They grow up female. But biological testing shows them male. What do you call them?
> [@](#):
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> But he thinks he is a woman and wants to be called Sally. Why do we all have to indulge his mental illness under penalty of law?
Because law is an encoding of social interaction.
> [@](#):
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> What if Bob wants to be addressed as “Your excellency”? Still legal and moral protection?
In some places, “Your excellency” or such are legally and morally mandated. After all, there’s that English lady we’re supposed to refer to as “Your Majesty”. If it’s encoded in the law, then yes, you are supposed to comply.
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### Author:  [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/143 "2012-08-31T15:58:09Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> I can’t understand why this is even an argument. Bob is a man. He has testicles and a penis. He has an XY chromosome. He is factually and biologically a man.
This is the definition of biological sex. You have failed to address psychological gender.
Powers &8^]
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### Author:  [@packergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/packergirl)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/144 "2012-09-02T05:10:20Z")
Actually, I never think about it, don’t really care, not my business. It’s very confusing and complicated, and we people, always wanting to show what smart little monkeys we are, love to over complicate matters. Personally, I have never met a man in my life, (and I’ve done a little living mind you) who thought his day would brighten if his penis were gone. Never. So I think we are talking about a small percentage of our population, but never-the-less, I believe “everyone” has a right to their happiness as long as what makes them happy doesn’t hurt others. What’s confusing is a woman, who is uncomfortable being a woman and wants to be a man, who is uncomfortable with women? So you are a gay man now? So in essence you are a woman who wants to have sex with a man but you think it will be a better experience is you too have a penis??? What the what? It’s like watching Victor/Victoria in drag. I mean we are talking about sex organs here right? It is about sex isn’t it? If the equipment God (figure of speech, don’t get excited) gave you, works, I mean really works…why would you mess with that? Don’t orgasms make people happy too? (not to mention the countless other benefits). How do you know the new equipment will work the same? If the equipment doesn’t work I say fix it or get new equipment; but, if it ain’t broke why fix it? Why not just find out what really turns you on and as long as everyone is a consenting adult and you’re not in the park doing it in front of my kids… go for it. I’m more concerned about the tarnishing of the Hippocratic Oath, when Dr’s play God for a buck. Just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should.
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### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/145 "2012-09-02T12:32:09Z")
> [@packergirl](#):
>
> What’s confusing is a woman, who is uncomfortable being a woman and wants to be a man, who is uncomfortable with women? So you are a gay man now? So in essence you are a woman who wants to have sex with a man but you think it will be a better experience is you too have a penis??? What the what?
It’s not difficult: gender identity and sexual preference are separate, but have an influence on each other. Statistics vary widely, but about 1/3-1/2 of transwomen are exclusively lesbian, and the balance are either heterosexual or bi. I believe the numbers are much lower for transmen, something like 1/10-1/6 are exclusively gay. The root cause has been speculated on extensively but only studied peripherally, possibly because it’s sort of small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately, the relatively high number of lesbian transwomen is often seized upon as “proof” that they’re just autogynephilic men (such as by Dr. Anne Lawrence, whose opinions I disagree with).
> [@](#):
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> It’s like watching Victor/Victoria in drag.
Don’t be insulting towards transwomen.
> [@](#):
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> If the equipment doesn’t work I say fix it or get new equipment; but, if it ain’t broke why fix it?
If only we lived in a world where shopworn adages could remove the uncertainty, confusion, fear, self-hatred, outright terror, and inconsolable sadness of gender dysphoria. If only.
> [@](#):
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> I’m more concerned about the tarnishing of the Hippocratic Oath, when Dr’s play God for a buck. Just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should.
Oddly, a very large number of physicians feel quote strongly that removing the horror show of gender dysphoria and allowing people to have a darned good chance at happy and productive and fulfilling lives is right in line with the Hippocratic Oath.
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### Author:  [@stevenova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stevenova)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/146 "2012-09-02T17:44:34Z")
The point is, is that they have severe body dysmorphia, and the psychology field has completely fallen for politically correctness.
They now have laws that FORCE other people to deny reality, right now in the US they are only civil in nature, but soon it will be considered a “hate crime” to deny a person with a penis from using the woman’s bathroom if they feel like they are.
The doctors who “treat” them are criminals. They are just like if a doctor gave vomiting techniques and laxatives to someone who is anorexic or bulemic. They ENABLE these people’s mental illness. I feel bad for transsexuals, they have some severe issues that the psychology field currently can’t deal with, so instead they enable it.
Imagine if I thought I was black, despite being white. Do you think I could get laws passed to FORCE people to believe my twisted world view? Would I also benefit from affirmative action, quotas etc if I believe I’m something that I’m not, and can FORCE others to accept my twisted beliefs?
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### Author:  [@penumbrage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penumbrage)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/147 "2012-09-02T21:17:54Z")
Just like homosexuals, there are undoubtedly transsexuals whose root causes are psychological issues generated due to sexual abuse or other severe mental traumas, for whom years or decades of appropriate therapy may (or may not) resolve their gender dysphoria.
And, just like homosexuals, there are undoubtedly transsexuals whose root causes are known (or as yet unknown) intersex conditions that generate a mismatch between their mental and genetic or physical genders, for whom any duration of therapy would prove as useless as sending a dwarf to a psychologist so he could grow taller.
Since we’ve known for thousands of years that a small fraction of the population are not born strictly male nor strictly female (with decades of research having uncovered dozens of medical and genetic conditions responsible for many of our intersex individuals) and that the extremely young field of brain gender physiology already casts doubt on a one-size-fits-all male/female interchangeable brain, I’d have to conclude that it’s the people who fail to acknowledge the full spectrum of human sexuality and gender and who insist (incorrectly and sometimes stridently) that every single person must be 100% male or 100% female who are actually the ones in denial of reality.
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### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/148 "2012-09-02T23:40:10Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> The point is, is that they have severe body dysmorphia, and the psychology field has completely fallen for politically correctness.
Sure…because tens of thousands of psychologists and psychiatrists around the world are all under the jackboot of political correctness, in every modern industrialized nation… :dubious:
> [@](#):
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> They now have laws that FORCE other people to deny reality
I agree. It’s terrible that we have laws which FORCE not recognizing the reality of transsexuals and which deny them or omit legal rights and protection.
> [@](#):
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> …but soon it will be considered a “hate crime” to deny a person with a penis from using the woman’s bathroom if they feel like they are.
If they feel like they are what? A penis, or a woman’s bathroom?
> [@](#):
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> I feel bad for transsexuals
I sincerely doubt it. Your entire post reeks of hatred and intolerance.
> [@](#):
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> Imagine if I thought I was black, despite being white.
Incorrect analogy. Aside from the fact that race is an arguable characteristic to assign anyone, transsexuals not only feel they are transsexual, they are transsexual.
> [@](#):
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> Do you think I could get laws passed to FORCE people to believe my twisted world view? Would I also benefit from affirmative action, quotas etc if I believe I’m something that I’m not, and can FORCE others to accept my twisted beliefs?
You really have a thing about using the word FORCE in all capital letters, don’t you?
No one is wanting to FORCE anyone to accept transsexuals. Just to allow them the medical resources to improve their lives using the most effective treatment there is - gender identity matching - and equal treatment under the law as befits their gender identity. I know that’s _such_ a burden to everyone, but maybe with the help of Jesus, and the inspiration of our heroic fighting men and women overseas, we’ll all be able to pull together as a nation and get through this “transsexual crisis” with a minimum of casualties to our American Way of Life[sup]TM[/sup].
In other words, :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@stevenova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stevenova)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/149 "2012-09-03T00:21:16Z")
Do you really think that someone who has a penis can be female?
These “laws” are trying to force other people to live in the sick mind of people who refuse to accept what they are.
You think it’s okay to force other people to deny reality? I mean doesn’t it seem like a MOTHER F’ING huge clue that if you have a dick that you are male?
What other scenario besides circumcision to people cut off perfectly working body parts, then take drugs like hormones, which are proven to cause cancer and heart disease, to make them seem like the sex they weren’t born as?
I thought if these people really believe they are the other sex, why do they do the hormones and sex change operations (and no doubt, liberals will make taxpayers fund these surgeries in the future)??? To fool other people?
Penis = male.
If someone can’t accept that ,they are severly mentally disturbed.
If they are hermaphrodites, that’s a completely different story and can choose to be one or the other and have surgeries. But in the case of just transgenders, it’s criminal for doctors to do what they do. Unethetical, criminal to remove body parts that work fine, or to give drugs that have such consequences for a non medically necessary reason. Enable anorexics like they do transgenders and they’d lose their medical licenses and probably face criminal charges.
It’s completely due to political correctness, and the psychology field is severely hurting it’s reputation by doing this.
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### Author:  [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/150 "2012-09-03T00:36:03Z")
Penis =/= male. I’m on my phone so I can’t go into too much detail, but there are several documented cultures with more than two genders. Often this third gender is something like “effeminate male” and they could be wives to the male gender. In one culture it was called berdace (spelling may be a tad off) and it was important, only this third gender were allowed to be shaman.
Gender is tied to sex, you can’t say it’s independent, but there’s a lot of culture in there too.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/151 "2012-09-03T01:33:10Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> Do you really think that someone who has a penis can be female? . . .
>
> Penis = male.
Leaving out transsexedness entirely, this view ignores ambiguous genitalia. It is entirely possible for a human to be XX, and be born with a penis.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/152 "2012-09-03T02:32:10Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> Do you really think that someone who has a penis can be female?
>
> These “laws” are trying to force other people to live in the sick mind of people who refuse to accept what they are.
The problem is that there is no cure for transexuality, and no really viable treatment for it that you will accept.
I said it some pages back, but when we can’t cure someone then we should make an effort to alleviate their suffering. Right now, the only thing we can offer these people is sexual reassignment treatment. Allowing them to transition (whether you consider it a farce or not) does seem to improve their quality of life. If it eases the pain of a fellow human being for whom medical science has nothing else to offer I am completely at peace with changing the pronouns I use to refer to a particular person.
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### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/153 "2012-09-03T02:43:41Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> Do you really think that someone who has a penis can be female?
So by your own argument, a transsexual woman who has SRS is no longer male. You’re sort of all over the map here.
> [@](#):
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> These “laws” are trying to force other people to live in the sick mind of people who refuse to accept what they are.
Why is “laws” in quotes?
> [@](#):
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> I mean doesn’t it seem like a MOTHER F’ING huge clue that if you have a dick that you are male?
Please look up “gender” and “sex” in the dictionary, and observe why they are different.
> [@](#):
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> What other scenario besides circumcision to people cut off perfectly working body parts,
People have breast reduction surgery, and both sexes have nose jobs, and a variety of other cosmetic surgical procedures.
> [@](#):
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> then take drugs like hormones, which are proven to cause cancer and heart disease, to make them seem like the sex they weren’t born as?
I’ll wager you don’t know at all, with respect to transsexuals, the relative risk of cancer and heart disease compared to the relative risk of not taking hormones. Please make sure you do at least as much due diligence as I showed on the first page.
> [@](#):
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> I thought if these people really believe they are the other sex, why do they do the hormones and sex change operations (and no doubt, liberals will make taxpayers fund these surgeries in the future)??? To fool other people?
I was just wondering when you said earlier, that you feel bad for transsexuals…you were being ironic, right?
> [@](#):
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> If they are hermaphrodites, that’s a completely different story and can choose to be one or the other and have surgeries.
I’m sure intersex persons everywhere are relieved at your magnanimous gesture.
> [@](#):
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> But in the case of just transgenders, it’s criminal for doctors to do what they do. Unethetical, criminal to remove body parts that work fine, or to give drugs that have such consequences for a non medically necessary reason.
It is medically necessary. Perhaps you haven’t read the thread.
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### Author:  [@stevenova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stevenova)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/154 "2012-09-03T02:45:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> The problem is that there is no cure for transexuality, and no really viable treatment for it that you will accept.
>
> I said it some pages back, but when we can’t cure someone then we should make an effort to alleviate their suffering. Right now, the only thing we can offer these people is sexual reassignment treatment. Allowing them to transition (whether you consider it a farce or not) does seem to improve their quality of life. If it eases the pain of a fellow human being for whom medical science has nothing else to offer I am completely at peace with changing the pronouns I use to refer to a particular person.
They can’t cure lots of things. Should they just give bulemics laxatives in the cases where they can’t do anything?
You might be fine with changing pronouns, but what happens when other people are FORCED to do that or face lawsuits and possible hate crimes charges for not denying reality?
Why should other people be forced to accept someone else’s severe mental problems and play along?
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/155 "2012-09-03T03:08:07Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> They can’t cure lots of things. Should they just give bulemics laxatives in the cases where they can’t do anything?
How is GID remotely like bulimia?
> [@](#):
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> You might be fine with changing pronouns, but what happens when other people are FORCED to do that or face lawsuits and possible hate crimes charges for not denying reality?
Who is denying reality? Perhaps others ( who frankly seem to have done a lot more research on the subject than you) disagree on what the reality is. But nobody is “denying reality”.
> [@](#):
>
> Why should other people be forced to accept someone else’s severe mental problems and play along?
You hate transsexuals. We get it.
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### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/156 "2012-09-03T03:10:37Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> Why should other people be forced to accept someone else’s severe mental problems and play along?
Naw…too easy.
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### Author:  [@stevenova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stevenova)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/157 "2012-09-03T03:12:29Z")
> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> How is GID remotely like bulimia?
>
> Who is denying reality? Perhaps others ( who frankly seem to have done a lot more research on the subject than you) disagree on what the reality is. But nobody is “denying reality”.
>
> You hate transsexuals. We get it.
They are both body dismorphic type disorders. Bulemics think they are heavier than they actually are. Transgenders think they are a different sex than they actually are.
Calling someone with a penis a “her” is denying reality.
I hate trannsexuals? Proof of this? Do I hate bulemics too because I think they should get mental help instead of being enabled?
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/158 "2012-09-03T03:16:14Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> They can’t cure lots of things. Should they just give bulemics laxatives in the cases where they can’t do anything?
There actually are treatments for bulemia where it puts the problem into what is, essentially, remission. The person remains at risk for eating disorders in the future, but can learn to eat normally again.
Transsexuality is not like that.
> [@](#):
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> You might be fine with changing pronouns, but what happens when other people are FORCED to do that or face lawsuits and possible hate crimes charges for not denying reality?
Well, gee, by that reasoning we shouldn’t be able to outlaw ANY form of discrimination.
> [@](#):
>
> Why should other people be forced to accept someone else’s severe mental problems and play along?
Because it is the kindest thing we can currently do to alleviate their suffering? Because forcing them to conform to your perception of reality leads to things like a 30% suicide rate? Does the phrase “needles cruelty” need to be defined for you?
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### Author:  [@Ruby\_Slippers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby_Slippers)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/159 "2012-09-03T03:27:29Z")
> [@stevenova](#):
>
> Calling someone with a penis a “her” is denying reality.
I’m just curious about one point here – if you see a person who is dressed as a woman and in most respects looks like a woman, how do you know whether this person does or does not have a penis?
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### Author:  [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-transsexuals-mentally-ill/631759/160 "2012-09-03T07:39:35Z")
> [@penumbrage](#):
>
> Just like homosexuals, there are undoubtedly transsexuals whose root causes are psychological issues generated due to sexual abuse or other severe mental traumas, for whom years or decades of appropriate therapy may (or may not) resolve their gender dysphoria.
You’re (perhaps unintentionally) repeating Family Research Council talking points. Check [this refutation out](http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html).
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