# Are US Embassies armed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082 "2012-03-07T23:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/21 "2012-03-08T22:12:24Z")
The exterior guards at the US Embassy in Kabul are very well armed private contractors. They have M4s, riot shotguns and MP5s on display, and no doubt some larger weapons hidden from easy view. I won’t speak as to the specific armament of the interior guards, but they’re no less well armed than a regular US Army infantry platoon. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/22 "2012-03-08T22:14:52Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > By my calcs, that shotgun has a 3.38 inch bore diameter :-). D’oh! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/23 "2012-03-08T22:19:16Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > I think so. I’ve been in the US embassy in Ottawa a few times. Once you go through two metal detectors, heavy doors and then empty out your pockets, you’re then in a locked down lobby with a US Marine in an armour glass plated booth with a murder hole about waist high. _South Park_ is all you need to understand why we don’t trust those those sneaky, perfidious Canucks. Hell, they put gravy on their fries! ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/24 "2012-03-08T22:41:07Z")
Thanks for the info! hh btw, IIRC, the embassy was either Paris or Berlin… ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/25 "2012-03-09T00:48:09Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > btw, IIRC, the embassy was either Paris or Berlin… In the first Bourne movie, he’s in the Zurich embassy. In real life, the US does not have an embassy in Zurich. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/26 "2012-03-09T00:53:56Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > _South Park_ is all you need to understand why we don’t trust those those sneaky, perfidious Canucks. Hell, they put gravy on their fries! You forgot the squeaky cheese curds with that gravy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/27 "2012-03-09T01:00:39Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > In the first Bourne movie, he’s in the Zurich embassy. In real life, the US does not have an embassy in Zurich. As I recall, it was actually the consulate in Zurich, but I could be misremembering. The embassy, of course, is in Bern. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/28 "2012-03-09T03:32:37Z")
I’m pretty sure there are some Marines around the US Embassy in Bangkok, but security is generally contracted out to a local private service. But they seem much more professional and efficient than your standard sleepy department-store guard. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/29 "2012-03-09T03:51:22Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m pretty sure there are some Marines around the US Embassy in Bangkok, but security is generally contracted out to a local private service. But they seem much more professional and efficient than your standard sleepy department-store guard. Local security services generally have severely limited access to embassy facilities. They usually don’t get any further than the front guard post, although a supervisor may have an office in the embassy proper. These services are usually there to discourage people from loitering outside the compound and can be used for a variety of interactions with local civilians, including doing background checks for embassy employees, investigating theft by local employees (Foreign Service Nationals - FSNs), etc. Quite often, the guards standing on the sidewalk around an embassy’s perimeter are host country army personnel, provided as a courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/30 "2012-03-09T04:04:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Local security services generally have severely limited access to embassy facilities. They usually don’t get any further than the front guard post, although a supervisor may have an office in the embassy proper. These services are usually there to discourage people from loitering outside the compound and can be used for a variety of interactions with local civilians, including doing background checks for embassy employees, investigating theft by local employees (Foreign Service Nationals - FSNs), etc. Quite often, the guards standing on the sidewalk around an embassy’s perimeter are host country army personnel, provided as a courtesy. They do control access to who goes inside, making sure you leave cellphones etc with them. They’re pretty beefy too. But that’s right, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen seen any deep inside. In times of emergency, such as intelligence pointing to a possible incident, the riots of recent years or even last month’s Iranian bombers blowing themselves up, the government posts some police or soldiers outside for extra protection. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/31 "2012-03-09T05:20:16Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > As I recall, it was actually the consulate in Zurich, but I could be misremembering. The embassy, of course, is in Bern. I always thought that was Berlin for some reason (of course, it looks nothing like the Berlin Embassy, which is right on the biggest street in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/32 "2012-03-09T15:20:09Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > . Quite often, the guards standing on the sidewalk around an embassy’s perimeter are host country army personnel, provided as a courtesy. Language is an issue , too. Using locals (instead of American guards) outside on the sidewalk solves problems of language and culture. Locals can speak to passersby as necessary- tell them to get out of the way, not to loiter, etc. And locals know the culture, so they can identify potential troublemakers. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/33 "2012-03-09T15:36:29Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I always thought that was Berlin for some reason (of course, it looks nothing like the Berlin Embassy, which is right on the biggest street in Germany. If we’re talking about the first movie, he was still working his way through Europe, having just gotten off the boat in Marseilles and having the Swiss bank account number in his possession. He went to the bank in Zurich to retrieve the contents of the box, then ran into the consulate when he was being chased by local cops. Digression: The problem with the whole scenario is that the visa mill can be accessed by locals applying for a visa, but they can’t get into the main core of the consulate from there. Business is done through window slots and the only access into the inner areas is through a Marine guard post. Nobody gets through there unless he is an American with an access badge, or is escorted by a consular employee. So Bourne would not have been able to run wild in the building, as depicted in the film. Good movie, though. Your comment gave me pause. The American mission to Germany used to be in Bonn back when there was an East and West Germany. There was a sizable facility in West Berlin at that time, and a mission over on the east side that I visited once. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/34 "2012-03-09T17:14:34Z")
Chefguy - any thoughts on what went wrong in Iran? IIRC the student riots went on for several days before they stormed the Embassy. But, I don’t recall anyone evacuating before the crap hit the fan. Just wondered why so many hostages got taken. Six guys (mostly Consular Officers) did avoid capture. > **[Iran hostage crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis#Six_diplomats_who_evaded_capture)** > > Hostages released by Algiers Accords > Islamic Republic of Iran > Supported by: > People's Mujahedin ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/35 "2012-03-09T17:26:30Z")
We owe the Canadians big time for saving our six diplomats in Iran. > [@](#): > > Cora Amburn-Lijek, Mark Lijek, Joseph and Kathleen Stafford and Robert Anders were five of the six diplomats who were harbored and “exfiltrated” from Tehran in 1980. They were working in the consulate, a separate building on the embassy compound, when the students swarmed over the wall. The diplomats fled into Tehran’s streets along with an American who had been getting a visa fixed (he was able to get a plane out of Iran on his own). When the Americans saw the huge crowd before them, Robert Anders asked the others if they would like to come home with him as he lived nearby. That began a five-day odyssey as they went from house to house aided by the Thai cook Sam. After three days the Bazargan government fell and everyone realized the ordeal would not be over in just a few days. Finally out of money and with no place to stay, Robert contacted his old friend Canadian Immigration officer John Sheardown, his tennis buddy, and on November the 10th they went to the house of John and Zina Sheardown. John was outside watering the sidewalk with his garage door open so the car carrying the Americans could drive in with no one aware of the arrival of the new house guests. Later in the day, Canadian Ambassador Ken Taylor arrived and took the Staffords to his residence where his wife Pat was waiting. The other three stayed with the Sheardowns and two weeks later,[2] a sixth, Lee Schatz from the US Agriculture Department, joined the group. He had spent the interim sleeping on the floor at the Swedish embassy. They would remain there for 79 days.[3] > Movie poster created by the CIA as part of the cover story > > The operation itself was initiated at great personal risk by then Canadian ambassador to Iran, Ken Taylor, and Canadian Immigration officer John Sheardown who provided sanctuary in their own private residences for the six endangered American diplomats. Two “friendly-country” embassy officials assisted as well, and an unoccupied diplomatic residence was used for several weeks. > **[Canadian Caper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Caper)** > > The "Canadian Caper" was the joint covert rescue by the Government of Canada and the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) of six American diplomats who had evaded capture during the seizure of the United States embassy in Tehran, Iran, on November 4, 1979, after the Iranian Revolution, when Islamist students took most of the American embassy personnel hostage, demanding the return of the US-backed Shah for trial. > After the diplomats had been sheltered by the British mission and Canadian diplom... ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/36 "2012-03-09T17:58:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Chefguy - any thoughts on what went wrong in Iran? IIRC the student riots went on for several days before they stormed the Embassy. But, I don’t recall anyone evacuating before the crap hit the fan. Just wondered why so many hostages got taken. Six guys (mostly Consular Officers) did avoid capture. > [Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis#Six_diplomats_who_evaded_capture) That was before my time with the FS, but by the time of the takeover any dependents had probably been sent home. I think it just came as a big surprise to everybody that a crowd of what was basically rabble could gather the wherewithal to successfully breach the place. This incident was probably one of the main motivators for legislation that required certain construction criteria for any new embassies. Unfortunately, it’s almost prohibitively expensive to build embassies with those criteria and they are often waived for the sake of expediency. What happened at existing embassies was the hardening of entries with man-traps, Lexan enclosures and deterrent measures put into place. One of the most effective deterrents was hit upon by a Marine guard during the incident (or so the story goes): he dumped a jug of cooking oil on the stone entry and stairs of the facility, which effectively kept attackers from gaining access long enough for the ambassador to make his escape. I don’t know if it’s still done, but one used to see a couple of gallons of oil sitting in the guard booth at some embassies. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/37 "2012-03-09T18:08:02Z")
Very interesting. Getting caught in the middle of a country’s revolution has to be the worst possible situation for the Embassy guards. No one expected the Shah’s gov to fall that quick. Thanks. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/38 "2012-03-09T20:53:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Very interesting. Getting caught in the middle of a country’s revolution has to be the worst possible situation for the Embassy guards. No one expected the Shah’s gov to fall that quick. > > Thanks. 😉 It’s no picnic for anybody. In the event of an evacuation, you leave with what you can carry. You end up being stuck in temporary quarters someplace or having to rent a place (if you don’t have a home to go to), while everything you own is stolen or destroyed back in your country of assignment. It’s the next worst thing to being taken captive. Any diplo with a brain has a kit at the ready in the event of an evacuation. It includes money, passports and other vital documents and is kept in your home’s safe-haven. I also kept gold and silver coins in there, as there have been instances of people having to evacuate overland and cross borders that may want bribes. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/39 "2012-03-11T17:24:48Z")
Remember how much fun SNL had with it, at the time? They were going to try the hostages as spies. Pretty shitty spies, who failed to notice the population in the streets demanding the exit of the Shah. They had skits about the employees complaining about how bad traffic was, ‘unrest? what unrest?’, it was pretty spot on. And while American’s see the Canadian action as heroic, the Canadian’s not really so much. I mean, seriously, what were the choices? Toss them out into the mobbed streets? They just did the right thing, and most Canadian’s could keep it in perspective. I do remember at the time, how initially they wouldn’t say how many hostages there were. I kept thinking something was up with that, they are all about numbers, at embassies. Then it became clear, if they spoke in numbers it would soon become obvious someone was hiding people some where. Interesting times, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082/40 "2012-03-11T17:29:52Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Remember how much fun SNL had with it, at the time? > > They were going to try the hostages as spies. Pretty shitty spies, who failed to notice the population in the streets demanding the exit of the Shah. They had skits about the employees complaining about how bad traffic was, ‘unrest? what unrest?’, it was pretty spot on. > > And while American’s see the Canadian action as heroic, the Canadian’s not really so much. I mean, seriously, what were the choices? Toss them out into the mobbed streets? They just did the right thing, and most Canadian’s could keep it in perspective. I do remember at the time, how initially they wouldn’t say how many hostages there were. I kept thinking something was up with that, they are all about numbers, at embassies. > > Then it became clear, if they spoke in numbers it would soon become obvious someone was hiding people some where. Interesting times, indeed. The Iranian incident was an indictment of the Ambassador, CIA and political officer types who were posted there and never saw it coming. All the non-critical personnel (at the very least) should have been evacuated way before that happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-embassies-armed/615082.md?page=3)