# Are US prostitutes mainly "sex trafficking" victims or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 23, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806 "2015-03-23T19:20:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/1 "2015-03-23T19:20:36Z")
Re this article - [‘Pretty Woman’ and the Ugly Truth About Prostitution](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marian-hatcher/pretty-woman-and-the-ugly-truth_b_6904804.html) it seems to hold that prostitutes in the US have little if any free will deciding to be prostitutes or not. This is in contradiction to some past SD threads discussing prostitution where various posters seemed to make the case that the era of the pimp and his stable was over, and that most (not all) prostitutes these days were free lancers who might be operating through various services or hosting their own net sites, but prostitution in the US was no longer primarily a dominant pimp with a stable and subservient prostitute model. Even street walkers at the bottom of the food chain were mainly free lancing. Who is right? > [@](#): > > Prostitution is ugly. Most of it is sex trafficking. It’s intriguing to read that the movie’s script originally was written as a dark, cautionary tale. That, from my perspective as a survivor, gets at the sad reality. > [@](#): > > The FBI defines sex trafficking as the use of “force, fraud and coercion.” They say about 100,000 victims are lured into the business in the US each year. I know from my experience, personally and professionally, that the vast majority of girls and women in prostitution are exploited - that means they’re being trafficked. Most come from communities that offer them little hope for the future. Most are pulled in by men who start as their “boyfriends,” then hook them on drugs and start selling their bodies to an endless stream of men who don’t fit the Richard Gere character profile at all. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/2 "2015-03-23T19:30:52Z")
I am kind of creeped out how it seems like these women are being infantilized. How do you get hooked on drugs against your will? Tied down and put on an IV for months? If the article’s point is that prostitution isn’t Pretty Woman, NO SHIT. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/3 "2015-03-23T20:10:24Z")
I do not agree with this person’s definition of “sex trafficking”. I’d say a majority of these woman are where they are because of some poor choices. Mostly having to do with drugs. Furthermore, these women have a support system should they want one. There are programs in almost every major city to help women get out of this life should they want to. The thing is, they have to WANT it. If you want a valid example of actual sex trafficking, look no further than Asian massage parlors. These women are brought here by false promise of a modeling career or they are outright brought here by force. Once they get here, they go through a training period where they are basically beaten into total submission. These woman are so completely brainwashed, the thought of escaping their captivity is unfathomable. And even if one of them did did escape, where are they going to go? They’re in a strange country they know nothing about. They are told by their captors that the American authorities will not help them and treat them worse than they (the captors) would. They also speak very little English and they’re young. Some of them under age. THAT’S what sex trafficking looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/4 "2015-03-23T21:05:28Z")
Poverty is what prostitution is about. Sex Trafficking is an offshoot of it. There are several sites you can google to find free lance prostitutes plying there trade. They range from hookers with pimps to single moms looking for some extra money to spend on clubbing and clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/5 "2015-03-23T21:14:08Z")
> [@astro](#): > > This is in contradiction to some past SD threads discussing prostitution where various posters seemed to make the case that the era of the pimp and his stable was over, and that most (not all) prostitutes these days were free lancers who might be operating through various services or hosting their own net sites, but prostitution in the US was no longer primarily a dominant pimp with a stable and subservient prostitute model. > > […] > > Who is right? …what the heck are you talking about? What threads are you reading? Can you show me one thread where someone has made that argument for the United States? How about you show this “contradiction” first before we start answering the question “who is right?” ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/6 "2015-03-23T21:31:57Z")
> **[Forced prostitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_prostitution#Voluntary_vs_involuntary_prostitution)** > > Forced prostitution, also known as involuntary prostitution or compulsory prostitution, is prostitution or sexual slavery that takes place as a result of coercion by a third party. The terms "forced prostitution" or "enforced prostitution" appear in international and humanitarian conventions, such as the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, but have been inconsistently applied. "Forced prostitution" refers to conditions of control over a person who is coerced by another to engage... It sounds like the abolitionist view. I was under the impression that forced trafficking mostly occurred across national borders, not within a nation. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/7 "2015-03-23T21:46:20Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …what the heck are you talking about? What threads are you reading? Can you show me one thread where someone has made that argument for the United States? > > How about you show this “contradiction” first before we start answering the question “who is right?” Here are some articles discussing this fairly significant shift of sex workers services to the net as independent operators vs the old pimp’s stable setup. > **[It's Hard Out There for a Pimp...in the Digital Age](https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/07/15/Its-Hard-Out-There-Pimpin-Digital-Age)** > > Pimpin' ain't easy—especially in the Internet age. [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/10/the-oldest-profession-evolves-how-the-web-transformed-prostitution.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/10/the-oldest-profession-evolves-how-the-web-transformed-prostitution.html) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/8 "2015-03-23T21:52:33Z")
For what it’s worth, someone I know posted this on FB (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > MYTH 2: Between 100,000 and 300,000 girls are pressed into sexual slavery each year in the United States. > > The source for the figure is a 2001 report on child sexual exploitation by University of Pennsylvania sociologists Richard Estes and Neil Alan Weiner. But their 100,000–300,000 estimate referred to children at risk for exploitation—not actual victims. When three reporters from the Village Voice questioned Estes on the number of children who are abducted and pressed into sexual slavery each year, he replied, “ **We’re talking about a few hundred people.** ” And this number is likely to include a lot of boys: > **[6 Feminist Myths That Will Not Die](https://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/)** > > Much of what we hear about the plight of American women is false ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/9 "2015-03-23T22:36:06Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Here are some articles discussing this fairly significant shift of sex workers services to the net as independent operators vs the old pimp’s stable setup. > > [It's Hard Out There for a Pimp...in the Digital Age | The Fiscal Times](http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/07/15/Its-Hard-Out-There-Pimpin-Digital-Age) > > [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/10/the-oldest-profession-evolves-how-the-web-transformed-prostitution.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/10/the-oldest-profession-evolves-how-the-web-transformed-prostitution.html) …those aren’t threads on this message board. Where are the posters who make the case that the era of the pimp and his stable are over? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/10 "2015-03-23T22:56:21Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I am kind of creeped out how it seems like these women are being infantilized. > > How do you get hooked on drugs against your will? Tied down and put on an IV for months? Quite a few women (e.g. 1/3rd or so, by memory) get started as runaways and are dependent on their boyfriend for a roof. He would likely pressure her into it. An additional number are managed by a father/step-father, without ever running away. One can imagine that this would turn one towards wanting to shoot up, even if it isn’t a requirement. But yes, a reasonable number end up at prostitution via an addiction rather than come to their addiction due to their livelihood. Again, based on memory, nearly all women in the profession are addicts at some point in their life. At any given moment, maybe only 2/3rds are addicts, but most of the remaining 1/3rd were former users. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/11 "2015-03-23T23:06:19Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I do not agree with this person’s definition of “sex trafficking”. Heck, virtually every form of sex work – not just prostitution but also stripping and porn – is recently being implied as involving some form of “trafficking”. It does seem at times also that there seems to be a trend towards exaggerating the reach of “trafficking” in general. However, the redefining of the common vulgar pimp as a “trafficker”? ISTM this arises in part out of the need to assert that the predatory pimp who takes abusive control of vulnerable minors, who does continue to exist and do harm, is a very different creature from the pop-media caricature of “Da Pimp”. So by itself I buy it. What is bothersome is how then this gets tied in with the debate between recognizing the sexworker’s rights and agency and seeking harm reduction vs. what \*\*Wesley Clark \*\*refers to as “the abolitionist view” towards sexwork where to some people, it is axiomatic that there is no such thing as a sexworker that is not a victim and that it is impossible to choose it freely. IMO the reality and the need to curtail the activities of the predatory pimps should be addressed, independently of whether they represent a majority or a minority and it is not evidence for or against the rise of the true freelance sex worker, and vice versa. That an Ashley Dupré exists and lives large charging governors $5K a trick does not mean that there is not a pimp in the alley beating up some runaway. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/12 "2015-03-23T23:10:30Z")
It’s interesting too that many conservative churches take up the issue of opposing sex trafficking. I cynically believe this is a way for them to show they’re doing ‘good work’ and try to deflect attention from the usual conservative church obsession with gays and abortion. ---
**Author:** ![escaped](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@escaped](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/escaped)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/13 "2015-03-24T01:10:58Z")
yes they are. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/14 "2015-03-24T01:31:00Z")
I think the definition of “trafficked” boils down to “if you wanted to quit tomorrow, are you free to do so withouth threats of violence to you or your loved ones.” I don’t know how many fall under this umbrella. There are definitely lots of freelancers. But there are also plenty of people in pretty clearcut bondage at massage parlors and the like. But I think what people have trouble with is the middle. If a prostitute is forced to do a job she doesn’t want to do, does that “count”? If not, why not? Where is the line between domestic violence and trafficking? If you get slapped around every time you talk about leaving, does that count? What if you are generally okay with where you are, but you also aren’t free to leave? I think the only reasonable stance is “if it’s illegal to do it to me, it should be illegal to do it to a sex worker.” But a lot of people want to draw a different line. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/15 "2015-03-24T01:49:47Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I do not agree with this person’s definition of “sex trafficking”. > I’d say a majority of these woman are where they are because of some poor choices. Mostly having to do with drugs. Furthermore, these women have a support system should they want one. There are programs in almost every major city to help women get out of this life should they want to. The thing is, they have to WANT it. > > If you want a valid example of actual sex trafficking, look no further than Asian massage parlors. These women are brought here by false promise of a modeling career or they are outright brought here by force. > > Once they get here, they go through a training period where they are basically beaten into total submission. These woman are so completely brainwashed, the thought of escaping their captivity is unfathomable. > > And even if one of them did did escape, where are they going to go? They’re in a strange country they know nothing about. They are told by their captors that the American authorities will not help them and treat them worse than they (the captors) would. They also speak very little English and they’re young. Some of them under age. > > THAT’S what sex trafficking looks like. “THAT’S what sex trafficking looks like.” True. Except that doesn’t mean there is only one bad category allowed. You can loose your job. You can loose your job and your house. You can loose your job, your house, and your car. All three are bad. I think it is a mistake to not have sympathy for one group just because another group has it much worse. Conversely, I do agree with your description of what it would be like in a worst case scenario. Your description is indeed a horrible situation. And it is much worse than being on drugs and sleeping with men for money. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/16 "2015-03-24T08:26:13Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I think the definition of “trafficked” boils down to “if you wanted to quit tomorrow, are you free to do so withouth threats of violence to you or your loved ones.” That’s a silly definition. Trafficked means they are being bought and sold. Simply being unable to quit doesn’t mean you were sold or kidnapped and put into the position you are currently in. Am I a gun trafficker because my gun can’t leave? No, I’d be a gun trafficker if I were illegally buying selling guns. Same here. The Pimp who buys and sells prostitutes. The people who kidnap girls and make them sex slaves. The people who buy young girls from families and bring them to another country to do sex slave work: that is sex trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/17 "2015-03-24T08:28:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I was under the impression that forced trafficking mostly occurred across national borders, not within a nation. Nope. Here’s a [Cracked article](http://www.cracked.com/article_21538_5-things-i-learned-as-sex-slave-in-modern-america.html) about within-border sex trafficking from the perspective of a victim (trigger warning, natch), has some links to stats and stuff but it is Cracked, not the NYT, so obviously not serious journalism. But I’m sure they would vet their source, they’re not amoral assholes over there. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/18 "2015-03-24T09:57:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That’s a silly definition. Trafficked means they are being bought and sold. Simply being unable to quit doesn’t mean you were sold or kidnapped and put into the position you are currently in. > > Am I a gun trafficker because my gun can’t leave? No, I’d be a gun trafficker if I were illegally buying selling guns. Same here. The Pimp who buys and sells prostitutes. The people who kidnap girls and make them sex slaves. The people who buy young girls from families and bring them to another country to do sex slave work: that is sex trafficking. Well, presumably they can’t leave because someone is making a profit off of selling their labor. Trafficking is illegal trade, including the trading of illegal labor against the persons will. If you were illegally renting out your guns to use, then that would be gun trafficking, even if the guns just showed up at your house one day. Bonded labor, debt servitude and other forms of forced labor are illegal, even if it involves people you don’t respect. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/19 "2015-03-24T15:03:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nope. Here’s a [Cracked article](http://www.cracked.com/article_21538_5-things-i-learned-as-sex-slave-in-modern-america.html) about within-border sex trafficking from the perspective of a victim (trigger warning, natch), has some links to stats and stuff but it is Cracked, not the NYT, so obviously not serious journalism. But I’m sure they would vet their source, they’re not amoral assholes over there. Per the Rolling Stone debacle I don’t think I’d be confident anyone is fully vetting dramatic exploitation style sex prisoner stories vs simply trusting the proclaimed victim. While bad stuff happens all the time I wouldn’t bet a dollar that _that_ particular Cracked story is real. It smells like a dramatic writing exercise from beginning to end ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806/20 "2015-03-24T15:26:32Z")
That cracked story is not real - ok - I can’t say for sure that stuff didn’t happen, but I know dozens of people that have used BackPage (on both sides) and this is the first time I’ve heard of those “code words”. I’ve known a decent amount of Sex Workers. I can’t say for sure that in certain areas there aren’t large amounts of traffic going on. I’m guessing some areas this may be the case, but in the area I am most familiar with (other than massage parlors - which I have very little knowledge of) - this isn’t the case. I am familiar with the boyfriend/girlfriend thing too, but it isn’t usually the case where the boyfriend is some puppet master controlling his woman/women. Usually it is that both are addicted to something - and she supports both of their habits by prostituting herself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-us-prostitutes-mainly-sex-trafficking-victims-or-not/715806.md?page=2)