# Are Vegetarians & Vegans Hypocrites? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882 "2000-03-14T15:30:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/81 "2000-03-27T00:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Otto: I still say a vegan diet is unsafe for small kids. Yes, I’ve heard you say it repeatedly, and you still haven’t proved it. > [@](#): > > And “unsafe” does not mean always deadly or harmful. Keeping a loaded gun where kids can find it almost defines “unsafe”, even if it never hurts anyone. Just because i could not find a website in 30 minute that roundly condemmed Veganism for kids, does not make it safe. Can you find a (non-vegan) site that says a veagn diet for kids is safe? I don’t have to. I can find sites (and have found sites) which offer information on proper nutrition and demonstrated how a vegan diet can fulfil those requirements. > [@](#): > > Nearly ALL the sites had cautions on vegetarian diets for kids. If I see enough warning signs on a road, I conclude the road is unsafe, even if I make it thru w/ no problems, esp. if I drive extra careful & have no problems. Alerting one to possible dangers doesn’t mean the road is unsafe. There is a difference between making a safe thing safer and making an unsafe thing safe. > [@](#): > > Some people hold onto their ethics as long as they are convenient-- we call these people “hypocrites”. And some people without ethics criticize ethical people – we call these people “assholes.” it’s pretty apparent that you have some bizarre anti-vegan agenda, despite being unable to demonstrate even the slightest harm ever done to a single child by a vegan diet. The day you stop eating meat is the day I’ll listen to you criticize me for being unable to avoid “eating” microbes. Until then, fuck off you twit. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/82 "2000-03-27T00:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Until then, fuck off you twit. [Moderator Hat ON] Otto, I have warned you before about swearing in GD, and personal insults are not allowed here either. Don’t make me warn you again. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/83 "2000-03-27T01:14:00Z")
Ya know, animals eat plants. Thus, eating animals you’re eating plants too. What was it? 10lbs of plant energy transfers to 1 lb of meat energy? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/84 "2000-03-27T02:47:00Z")
Some years ago (1993, IIRC), I got into a discussion with my Philosophy professor, who was a hard-core animal-rights advocate. He didn’t believe in eating or using any product which had caused an animal to suffer. At that time, he mentioned to me a study in progress that seemed to indicate that fish don’t feel pain the way other animals do; the chemical reaction in the brain that indicated pain in other animals is absent in fish, at least certain fish. I admit I haven’t looked around to see what’s become of the study, but only because I wanted to present it as a hypothetical: assuming the above to be true, would the vegetarian crowd have a problem eating fish? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/85 "2000-03-27T04:26:00Z")
I am writing this on the road (a brief vacation) so I can’t contribute as much as I’d like. However, I just want to say, Otto, barring profanity (please be careful, don’t want you to get into trouble!) I totally agree with your sentiments on this. We are debating with someone who seems to have such a rigid anti-vegan agenda. Frustrating. Regarding the concept that vegetarians are “lazy” (or possibly hypocrites) because they do not go to the great and elaborate (probably impossible) lengths to avoid eating itty bitty critters - I agree with Otto completely, but wanted to add this. Do any of us feel “lazy” because we do not go to the great (probably impossible) lengths to avoid eating the minscule bits of rat feces that is invariably in our food? Do we consider ourselves “shit eaters”? Same concept with eating microscopic critters. It’s just not something we can do anything (realistically) about, so we don’t sweat it. * * * * * * Polydactyl Cats Unlimited “A Cat Cannot Have Too Many Toes” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/86 "2000-03-27T05:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t make me warn you again. With apologies. I have opened a thread in the Pit to express my sentiments toward Daniel. If you wish to delete that phrase from my post here (preferably replacing it with a link to the new thread if at all possible), please feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/87 "2000-03-27T10:10:00Z")
Otto is right, I haven’t proved that veganism is harmful to kids. I really do not believe anything i would post would convince him. But I hope that others reading these posts would at least approach ANY radical diet, especially for their kids, with cautions a & good deal of research from someone not part of the “religion”. Please don’t BELIEVE me OR Otto-- do some reasearch yourself. I don’t hope to convince you veganism is harmful, but I do hope to make you think about it. In a way, Vegetarianism is a religion. as you can see there are the fanantics (vegans), the inquistion (“they’re not vegetarians, they don’t follow the one true way I follow”), ect. Of course, there are also those who do not eat meat for religous reasons (like many Buddhists), but they are usually not as shrill & defensive. Others, of course, have switched to a vegetarian or semi-vegetarian diet for health reasons, and are not “religous” about it. Yes, perhaps we have shown vegetarians are somewhat hypocritical, but it is hard to believe in the “one true way” of ANYTHING without becoming at least a little hypocritical. But, hell don’t take my word for it, I’m an \*sshole. But not a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/88 "2000-03-27T17:42:00Z")
Oh please. Vegetarianism _can_ get some people really wound up, maybe too tightly wound. And yeah, perhaps some veggies treat their diet in an almost religious context. But some of us just consider it another facet to our personality - something we take seriously, something we are willing to talk about (at times) but _not_ something that we are fervently committed to encouraging others to adopt. If you wanna try it out, feel free. I’m not dead yet from being veggie - chances are you won’t die either. But I’m not out to nag anyone about it. Anyway, some of the strident-ness you have read here (from me, Otto and others) is really more frustration than anything else. We are sick of being told that “you can’t survive without meat” or “plants have feelings too” (who said they didn’t?) or that you can eat fish (or chicken) and still be a veggie. Hey - after a while the constant misinformation being spread, and the people who are willing to correct _you_ about a diet and lifestyle that you know far more about than they do (since you are living it, and they aren’t) gets on your nerves. Trust me, if you had to answer the same tired questions, hear the same tired arguments, time and again, you’d develop a little “edge” also. As for this apparent fervent need to “prove” vegetarians are hypocrites - uh - get over it. Sure, some are, some aren’t. Same with the rest of humanity. For instance, as I mentioned before, the concept that a veggie is a “hypocrite” because they eat microscopic critters is no more valid than claiming a person who eats commercially processed foods (which invariably have rat feces) is a “shit eater”. So if veggies are hypocrites for eating those microscopic critters, then all of us are “shit eaters” The same logic going on there, as far as I can see. * * * * * * Polydactyl Cats Unlimited “A Cat Cannot Have Too Many Toes” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/89 "2000-03-27T17:56:00Z")
I’m just teasing you **Yosemitebabe**. I have some “hot button” issues myself. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/90 "2000-03-28T06:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden: > Opalcat: Please read my posts! I absolutely agree that an Ovo-Lacto V. diet is “safe”, “heathy”, and is NORMAL. There is a moral choice that you are making, and a fair one ( just do not insist I make the same choice, or think yours is “better”). I said a STRICT VEGAN diet is possibly unsafe & not-“normal”. > PS, Tracer is right, wait a year or so, you have a surprise coming! ## I did read your posts, and I understood that you were discussing whether or not veganism was healthy for children. My points were all still valid (not doing something you think is wrong). I threw in the “for the record” part just so people would know where I stood in the whole thing. – From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion” _the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable_ O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/91 "2000-03-28T06:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden: > So if an animal is “too small for the naked eye”, it’s OK to kill & beat it? There is such a sharp line between big & small animals? > Some people hold onto their ethics as long as they are convenient-- we call these people “hypocrites”. Ok, I just have to ask, for my own curiosity… are you mentally retarded? * * * – From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion” _the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable_ O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/92 "2000-03-28T06:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden: > > In a way, Vegetarianism is a religion. [snip] the inquistion (“they’re not vegetarians, they don’t follow the one true way I follow”), ## Oh PLEASE. There is a big difference between “the one true way” in a religion and deciding whether something fits a definition. Vegetarian has a specific meaning. I think my question of my previous post has been answered. – From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion” _the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable_ O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/93 "2000-03-27T20:13:00Z")
Opalcat: Aha, a crushing well reasoned reply that clearly answers all my points, done in fine debating style. Why don’t you go join Otto in the BBQ pit? He seems to be having a lot of fun there. Although, wouldn’t BBQing ME be hpocritical of a vegetarian? Isn’t an \*sshole an animal product? My posts may or may not have convinced anyone that vegetarians are (sometimes) hypocrites, but the replies seem to answer the question in the affirmative. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/94 "2000-03-27T21:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Ok, I just have to ask, for my own curiosity… are you mentally retarded? [Moderator Hat ON] Nope, not here, Opal. You guys have your very own pit thread to bash Daniel, you don’t have any excuse to do it in GD. All of you: tone it down or this is going end up in The Pit. It has ceased to be a debate and has degenerated into sniping on _both_ sides. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/95 "2000-03-27T23:40:00Z")
Mr Moderator: I am rather new to the kind of message boards/postings we do here. (I have been doing some that are mono-subject fro a long while tho.) I HAVE tried to make no personal comments (altho I HAVE slammed vegans for being hypocrites, isn’t that the thread here?). I HAVE tried to debate the issue. Please let me know what sort of comments I have made that are marginal, so i can avoid them, or PIT them. Thanks :DitWD ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/96 "2000-03-28T00:47:00Z")
That’s _Ms._ Moderator to you, young man. 😃 You haven’t made any personal attacks, true, which is why you didn’t get a specific warning; but when I have two warn _two_ people within 24 hours, things are getting heated in general and I’d like _everybody_ to back off for a while, 'cause if it keeps up I’ll choose to toss it in the Pit rather than pop back in every few hours to say “no, you can’t say that in GD”. You are certainly allowed to call vegetarians hypocrites and not “normal” here in GD; you can also say the pope is insane, or atheists are amoral, etc., etc., but you better back it up, and the ratio of facts and logic to unsupported sniping in this thread has dropped precipitously in the past few exchanges. On _both_ sides. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/97 "2000-03-28T11:32:00Z")
MS moderator: Sigh, I guess you’re right. It WAS fun while it lasted, tho. yours: DitLD ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/98 "2000-03-29T00:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden: > > My posts may or may not have convinced anyone that vegetarians are (sometimes) hypocrites, but the replies seem to answer the question in the affirmative. Right. Because if you say “I don’t eat meat” and then go ahead and don’t eat meat, but you make some snide comments to someone on a message board, you’re being a hypocrite. :rolleyes: Might I direct you toward the dictionary? * * * – From an actual catalog: “Disco balls create an enchanting, dazzling effect of light shafts, adding movement and glamour to any occasion” _the Abrams’ bris was certainly memorable_ O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![quadell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/b9bd4f/32.png) [@quadell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quadell)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/99 "2000-03-29T02:33:00Z")
Answer to OP: Yeah, some of them are, sure. Humorous link which may or may not go too far: [here](http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-viciousvegan.html). My take: yeah, I can’t avoid all animal products, and I never claimed to be perfect. I just do the best I can. _shrug_ Whenever anyone takes a difficult stand, there are always a dozen people there waiting to nail him whenever he makes a mistake, who can’t wait to call him a hypocrite so they can feel better about not taking a stand themselves. (Why else would anyone care what I ate?) You just have to learn to ignore them and do the best you can do. Your Quadell ---
**Author:** ![Strider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Strider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strider)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882/100 "2000-03-29T05:20:00Z")
[Lurk Mode OFF] Having lurked around this site more a couple months, though i havent been a registared user until recently, i must say that i found this thread to be very interesting. I even went so far as to write a brilliant, at least i thought so, post with support for both Daniel and Otto, however i closed the window by accident and lost about 45 minutes worth of research and writing in a single computer blip. :mad: Anywho… through my research i must say that Otto and several others have convinced me to at least cut my meat intake from it’s current levels. Congrats Otto, yosemitebabe, and assorted others. While you have not garnered a complete convert, you have successfully (sp?) opened my eyes to the evils of meat. anyway, back to lurking… ## -N [Lurk Mode ON] “Oh my God! Space aliens! Don’t eat me, I have a wife and kids! Eat them.” Homer Simpson [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vegetarians-vegans-hypocrites/17882.md?page=6)